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as a training tool, MS Flt Sim is a farce!!!



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 15th 03, 07:43 PM
George Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My response to most computer upgrades is "hey, it could be a major
overhaul on a real airplane engine - this video card is only a couple
hundred bucks!"

new sound card and speakers - "hey, do you know much a set of david
clark headsets go for? this is a steal!"

so far so good...


On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:35 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



George Lewis wrote:
Yeah they like to eat, and my wife likes to buy shoes too! I know
I can't afford to buy an airplane that will carry THAT kind of a
payload! (shoes are heavy!)



;-) ... Well, I still recall my wife saying some moons ago something
along the lines of ... ".... why would you want to have a hand-held
radio that 'only' gets the air band?" Hey! Maybe our friends at Sporty's
heard her and 'that' is why, inter alia, they came out with their air
band hand-held that 'also' gets AM/FM but then will cut to the action
when it's show time in the air! This way, the old line... ehhhh ....make
that 'reasoning' to one's wife can be the benefits of a 'multi-band'
hand-held for those emergency times when house power is lost in re
storms or whatever cause ... or any related excuse that is handy...and
at least plausible! ;-)

Doc Tony
;-)


Of course, selling the purchase of a classic [read: old] C-172 or Piper
'cousin' so to speak becomes somewhat more difficult!

But then, the pitch becomes the proverbial duck soup thing when you
announce you'll hold on the real McCoy for practical [read: economic]
reasons and for a mere fraction of what a decent set of plugs would cost
[forget the labor charge for installation!] on the real thing, hey,
there's this great new sim..... ! Cue the 'do the math' bit! ;-)





On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:33:53 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:


Need I mention additional ad hoc SIM practice with avoiding 'needle
chasing' or simply shooting precision landings. I can't see where it
hurts or detracts from the real thing. And finally---bottom line--- in
the absence of the BIG bucks for one's own plane and the associated BIG
costs to maintain same or those high rental fees, hey, for some folks,
the sim is the closest 'feasible' reality due to pure economics! What's
the old joke or indeed av enthusiast [for the real thong] lament, to
wit, ".... my family has a very bad habit...they like to eat!" ;-)

Doc Tony
[Cessna 150/152/172 vintage]




  #22  
Old November 15th 03, 11:06 PM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Question is, George, will it fly for that ATI 9800 Pro? Although, just
for those reading, there are some good deals floating around on a more
reasonable alternative and I got the Nvidia GeForce FX5600 AGP 8X
w/256megs of on-board DDR video and thus far it's worked well. Caveat:
The 'secret' to that Nvidia card, and I'll put this out to, is the
Nvidia DRIVER! Free at the Nvidia website but the latest drivers will
prevent that color 'smearing' effect in the gauges of the sims that the
earlier drivers caused. Not a bad card at least in terms of the
discounted price. Sure, I'd like that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro but the tag
for same [$375-$400 is the lowest I've seen] is right up there! But
then, like everything else, I just jumped from PC2100 DDR to PC3200 DDR
memory and the prices are excellent! Brand stuff to boot and 2.5 CAS!!

Doc Tony

PS-- FYI--- saw a debate between a few sim enthusiast folks and it was
the old classic..IN ORDER..what would give the [alleged] best 'overall'
[viz., visual, minimize the jumps and stalls or temp freeze frames, etc.
etc.] sim effect and the discussion came down to...and in order of
importance...[subject to debate to be sure].... 1. Machine memory [Note:
that's 'machine' memory and 'not' video card memory although the
presumed 'standard' for 'video card' memory was 128 megs on-board !]
--and-- the machine memory associated CAS timing with 2.5 CAS
recommended and 2.0 the best CAS...if you can even get 2.0] 2. Overall
CPU speed and FSB size 3. HD speed with 7200RPM spin considered a
'must' 4. The video card ENGINE.

And yet to think back...the then Commodore folks and their now classic
C-64, the 'daddy' to the equaly classic VIC-20 and Commodore says, "The
new C-64 will provide enough on-board memory for 'all' [sic!] the needs
which an average family [as opposed to bizz use machines] 'will ever
need' [sic!] in a home computer." Right. Sort of like when we were told
that 9600K/BPS was the 'end of the line' for dial-up phone speeds as the
wires [without moving to ISDN set-ups] 'simply will not handle anything
faster than 9600' ... ."

There you have it. And I'm told a 4 'GIG' CPU is 'just around the bend!'


Doc Tony




George Lewis wrote:
My response to most computer upgrades is "hey, it could be a major
overhaul on a real airplane engine - this video card is only a couple
hundred bucks!"

new sound card and speakers - "hey, do you know much a set of david
clark headsets go for? this is a steal!"

so far so good...


On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:35 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



George Lewis wrote:

Yeah they like to eat, and my wife likes to buy shoes too! I know
I can't afford to buy an airplane that will carry THAT kind of a
payload! (shoes are heavy!)



;-) ... Well, I still recall my wife saying some moons ago something
along the lines of ... ".... why would you want to have a hand-held
radio that 'only' gets the air band?" Hey! Maybe our friends at Sporty's
heard her and 'that' is why, inter alia, they came out with their air
band hand-held that 'also' gets AM/FM but then will cut to the action
when it's show time in the air! This way, the old line... ehhhh ....make
that 'reasoning' to one's wife can be the benefits of a 'multi-band'
hand-held for those emergency times when house power is lost in re
storms or whatever cause ... or any related excuse that is handy...and
at least plausible! ;-)

Doc Tony
;-)


Of course, selling the purchase of a classic [read: old] C-172 or Piper
'cousin' so to speak becomes somewhat more difficult!

But then, the pitch becomes the proverbial duck soup thing when you
announce you'll hold on the real McCoy for practical [read: economic]
reasons and for a mere fraction of what a decent set of plugs would cost
[forget the labor charge for installation!] on the real thing, hey,
there's this great new sim..... ! Cue the 'do the math' bit! ;-)





On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:33:53 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



Need I mention additional ad hoc SIM practice with avoiding 'needle
chasing' or simply shooting precision landings. I can't see where it
hurts or detracts from the real thing. And finally---bottom line--- in
the absence of the BIG bucks for one's own plane and the associated BIG
costs to maintain same or those high rental fees, hey, for some folks,
the sim is the closest 'feasible' reality due to pure economics! What's
the old joke or indeed av enthusiast [for the real thong] lament, to
wit, ".... my family has a very bad habit...they like to eat!" ;-)

Doc Tony
[Cessna 150/152/172 vintage]




  #23  
Old November 15th 03, 11:42 PM
Dashi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There are also a lot of complaints about the lack of decent drivers for the
ATI 9800 series of video cards. It appears that they don't work very well
with FS9.

Be happy that you didn't buy one.

The latest mid range Nvidia card is the FX5700 and has received excellent
reviews, just in time for Xmas!

Dashi

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
Question is, George, will it fly for that ATI 9800 Pro? Although, just
for those reading, there are some good deals floating around on a more
reasonable alternative and I got the Nvidia GeForce FX5600 AGP 8X
w/256megs of on-board DDR video and thus far it's worked well. Caveat:
The 'secret' to that Nvidia card, and I'll put this out to, is the
Nvidia DRIVER! Free at the Nvidia website but the latest drivers will
prevent that color 'smearing' effect in the gauges of the sims that the
earlier drivers caused. Not a bad card at least in terms of the
discounted price. Sure, I'd like that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro but the tag
for same [$375-$400 is the lowest I've seen] is right up there! But
then, like everything else, I just jumped from PC2100 DDR to PC3200 DDR
memory and the prices are excellent! Brand stuff to boot and 2.5 CAS!!



  #24  
Old November 16th 03, 01:49 AM
Roger Halstead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:43:26 -0500, George Lewis
wrote:

My response to most computer upgrades is "hey, it could be a major
overhaul on a real airplane engine - this video card is only a couple
hundred bucks!"


Major on a Lycombing 300 HP with dynamic balancing and flow balancing
is about $26,000 US

new sound card and speakers - "hey, do you know much a set of david
clark headsets go for? this is a steal!"


Mine are Telex ANRs. One set would have been more than enough to
purchase DCs for all 4 seats.


so far so good...


On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:35 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



George Lewis wrote:
Yeah they like to eat, and my wife likes to buy shoes too! I know
I can't afford to buy an airplane that will carry THAT kind of a
payload! (shoes are heavy!)



;-) ... Well, I still recall my wife saying some moons ago something
along the lines of ... ".... why would you want to have a hand-held
radio that 'only' gets the air band?" Hey! Maybe our friends at Sporty's


They've had HTs that also received the 2-meter ham band, for some
time, but air band is AM, 2-meters is narrow band FM and the broadcast
band is wide band FM.

heard her and 'that' is why, inter alia, they came out with their air
band hand-held that 'also' gets AM/FM but then will cut to the action
when it's show time in the air! This way, the old line... ehhhh ....make
that 'reasoning' to one's wife can be the benefits of a 'multi-band'
hand-held for those emergency times when house power is lost in re
storms or whatever cause ... or any related excuse that is handy...and
at least plausible! ;-)


Mine cover from around 30 to 40 MHz to nearly 1 gig in frequency for
receive. My biggest complaint is the ones that cover air band have
such small battery capacity. My camera has over 2000 mah capacity
while my HT has less than half that.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


Doc Tony
;-)


Of course, selling the purchase of a classic [read: old] C-172 or Piper
'cousin' so to speak becomes somewhat more difficult!

But then, the pitch becomes the proverbial duck soup thing when you
announce you'll hold on the real McCoy for practical [read: economic]
reasons and for a mere fraction of what a decent set of plugs would cost
[forget the labor charge for installation!] on the real thing, hey,
there's this great new sim..... ! Cue the 'do the math' bit! ;-)





On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:33:53 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:


Need I mention additional ad hoc SIM practice with avoiding 'needle
chasing' or simply shooting precision landings. I can't see where it
hurts or detracts from the real thing. And finally---bottom line--- in
the absence of the BIG bucks for one's own plane and the associated BIG
costs to maintain same or those high rental fees, hey, for some folks,
the sim is the closest 'feasible' reality due to pure economics! What's
the old joke or indeed av enthusiast [for the real thong] lament, to
wit, ".... my family has a very bad habit...they like to eat!" ;-)

Doc Tony
[Cessna 150/152/172 vintage]



  #25  
Old November 16th 03, 01:55 AM
Don Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dashi wrote:
There are also a lot of complaints about the lack of decent drivers
for the ATI 9800 series of video cards. It appears that they don't
work very well with FS9.

Be happy that you didn't buy one.

It's not the lack of "decent" drivers, it's the lack of "perfect" drivers!
I have the 9800 128 non-pro and have excellent video, my only problem is
limited to MIP mapping at 4-5, while everything else is maxed! And I've not
heard if NVIDIA allows any better.
I bought one and am happy so (|-p))

Cheers'n beers... [_])
Don

(;-))

G


  #26  
Old November 16th 03, 02:18 AM
George Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm running 2.8 P4 (not 800 MHz FSB though), 1 GB RAM and a GeForce 4
MX video card. oh yeah, the HDs are 7200 rpm and big. My next
"upgrade" is an Nvidia FX 5600 Ultra from Gainward. I'm debating the
one with the heat sink versus the cooling fan. There's like 4
different 5600 ultra models depending on this and memory. I'll
probably realistically settle on the one with a fan on it. You can
never have your stuff too cool!

I'm not an ATI Radeon fan. I've been with Nvidia systems ever since
the 2 series came out. I wanted to upgrade my Ultra 2 to a nice
ti4600 but I got the MX because it was still faster than the Ultra 2
and the FX was coming out at any time.


On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:06:40 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:

Question is, George, will it fly for that ATI 9800 Pro? Although, just
for those reading, there are some good deals floating around on a more
reasonable alternative and I got the Nvidia GeForce FX5600 AGP 8X
w/256megs of on-board DDR video and thus far it's worked well. Caveat:
The 'secret' to that Nvidia card, and I'll put this out to, is the
Nvidia DRIVER! Free at the Nvidia website but the latest drivers will
prevent that color 'smearing' effect in the gauges of the sims that the
earlier drivers caused. Not a bad card at least in terms of the
discounted price. Sure, I'd like that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro but the tag
for same [$375-$400 is the lowest I've seen] is right up there! But
then, like everything else, I just jumped from PC2100 DDR to PC3200 DDR
memory and the prices are excellent! Brand stuff to boot and 2.5 CAS!!

Doc Tony

PS-- FYI--- saw a debate between a few sim enthusiast folks and it was
the old classic..IN ORDER..what would give the [alleged] best 'overall'
[viz., visual, minimize the jumps and stalls or temp freeze frames, etc.
etc.] sim effect and the discussion came down to...and in order of
importance...[subject to debate to be sure].... 1. Machine memory [Note:
that's 'machine' memory and 'not' video card memory although the
presumed 'standard' for 'video card' memory was 128 megs on-board !]
--and-- the machine memory associated CAS timing with 2.5 CAS
recommended and 2.0 the best CAS...if you can even get 2.0] 2. Overall
CPU speed and FSB size 3. HD speed with 7200RPM spin considered a
'must' 4. The video card ENGINE.

And yet to think back...the then Commodore folks and their now classic
C-64, the 'daddy' to the equaly classic VIC-20 and Commodore says, "The
new C-64 will provide enough on-board memory for 'all' [sic!] the needs
which an average family [as opposed to bizz use machines] 'will ever
need' [sic!] in a home computer." Right. Sort of like when we were told
that 9600K/BPS was the 'end of the line' for dial-up phone speeds as the
wires [without moving to ISDN set-ups] 'simply will not handle anything
faster than 9600' ... ."

There you have it. And I'm told a 4 'GIG' CPU is 'just around the bend!'


Doc Tony




George Lewis wrote:
My response to most computer upgrades is "hey, it could be a major
overhaul on a real airplane engine - this video card is only a couple
hundred bucks!"

new sound card and speakers - "hey, do you know much a set of david
clark headsets go for? this is a steal!"

so far so good...


On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:35 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



George Lewis wrote:

Yeah they like to eat, and my wife likes to buy shoes too! I know
I can't afford to buy an airplane that will carry THAT kind of a
payload! (shoes are heavy!)



;-) ... Well, I still recall my wife saying some moons ago something
along the lines of ... ".... why would you want to have a hand-held
radio that 'only' gets the air band?" Hey! Maybe our friends at Sporty's
heard her and 'that' is why, inter alia, they came out with their air
band hand-held that 'also' gets AM/FM but then will cut to the action
when it's show time in the air! This way, the old line... ehhhh ....make
that 'reasoning' to one's wife can be the benefits of a 'multi-band'
hand-held for those emergency times when house power is lost in re
storms or whatever cause ... or any related excuse that is handy...and
at least plausible! ;-)

Doc Tony
;-)


Of course, selling the purchase of a classic [read: old] C-172 or Piper
'cousin' so to speak becomes somewhat more difficult!

But then, the pitch becomes the proverbial duck soup thing when you
announce you'll hold on the real McCoy for practical [read: economic]
reasons and for a mere fraction of what a decent set of plugs would cost
[forget the labor charge for installation!] on the real thing, hey,
there's this great new sim..... ! Cue the 'do the math' bit! ;-)





On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:33:53 -0500, "Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo"
wrote:



Need I mention additional ad hoc SIM practice with avoiding 'needle
chasing' or simply shooting precision landings. I can't see where it
hurts or detracts from the real thing. And finally---bottom line--- in
the absence of the BIG bucks for one's own plane and the associated BIG
costs to maintain same or those high rental fees, hey, for some folks,
the sim is the closest 'feasible' reality due to pure economics! What's
the old joke or indeed av enthusiast [for the real thong] lament, to
wit, ".... my family has a very bad habit...they like to eat!" ;-)

Doc Tony
[Cessna 150/152/172 vintage]




  #27  
Old November 16th 03, 02:44 AM
Dashi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Don Parker" wrote in message
...
Dashi wrote:
There are also a lot of complaints about the lack of decent drivers
for the ATI 9800 series of video cards. It appears that they don't
work very well with FS9.

Be happy that you didn't buy one.

It's not the lack of "decent" drivers, it's the lack of "perfect" drivers!
I have the 9800 128 non-pro and have excellent video, my only problem is
limited to MIP mapping at 4-5, while everything else is maxed! And I've

not
heard if NVIDIA allows any better.
I bought one and am happy so (|-p))


Oh, OK!

I was mostly thinking about the guy on the other newsgroup, trying to run
FS9 with an ATI 9800XT and getting blockly redraws.

But if you are happy, then hey... ;-)

Man you must be loaded with money!

Dashi


Cheers'n beers... [_])
Don

(;-))

G




  #28  
Old November 16th 03, 04:27 AM
John Hall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The latest drivers, the 3.9's, fixed all of the issues in FS9. It looks and
runs great on my 9800 pro.

JK

"Dashi" wrote in message
...
There are also a lot of complaints about the lack of decent drivers for

the
ATI 9800 series of video cards. It appears that they don't work very well
with FS9.

Be happy that you didn't buy one.

The latest mid range Nvidia card is the FX5700 and has received excellent
reviews, just in time for Xmas!

Dashi

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
Question is, George, will it fly for that ATI 9800 Pro? Although, just
for those reading, there are some good deals floating around on a more
reasonable alternative and I got the Nvidia GeForce FX5600 AGP 8X
w/256megs of on-board DDR video and thus far it's worked well. Caveat:
The 'secret' to that Nvidia card, and I'll put this out to, is the
Nvidia DRIVER! Free at the Nvidia website but the latest drivers will
prevent that color 'smearing' effect in the gauges of the sims that the
earlier drivers caused. Not a bad card at least in terms of the
discounted price. Sure, I'd like that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro but the tag
for same [$375-$400 is the lowest I've seen] is right up there! But
then, like everything else, I just jumped from PC2100 DDR to PC3200 DDR
memory and the prices are excellent! Brand stuff to boot and 2.5 CAS!!





  #29  
Old November 16th 03, 05:18 PM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Sometimes I think it's a giant crap shoot [choice of video card] of
sorts because there are so many variables involved. Machines, in terms
of their innards and peripherals, are so widely diverse that one
person's sim nirvana can be another person's nightmare! The ATI vs
Nvidia thing [read: which is better argument] often reminds me of the
old boxing glove icons as to Billy G's IE browser versus Netscape.
Remember that one many moons ago? For example, at least with my system
and back to video cards, one noticeable difference was moving from MS's
8.2 series of DIRECT X to Direct X 9A and then 9B. With the Nvidia 5600,
the 9B seemed to have the edge of 9A while the 8 series caused smearing.
Yet [and someone please correct me if I'm in error here], there was a
sale on the ATI 9700 [not 9800 but 9700] but I don't believe that was
Direct X 9a or B compatible and using 9 was not as good as the 8.2
Direct X. So too, sometimes...I say sometimes...moving up to the
'latest' and MS hawked allegedly 'greatest' new Direct X series
[depending on one's system and what is in there and thus what interacts
with what considering the 'whole' system s a cohesive unit] can be a
step backward!

On the other hand and having had ATI cards previously, [although not the
9800 series], I saw no noticeable [operable word] difference, view wise,
in the ATI Radeon card 128 megs on-board DDR memory versus my present
Nvidia with 256 megs on-board DDR video.

But then, a change in memory SPEED made a big difference. Here's a tip
and I mention this because I simply didn't know it. When my motherboard
came out [Soyo P4X4000 Ultra Platinum] and its accompanying manual, the
'manual' speaks of the MAX memory speed being PC2100 DDR but, ahhh,
guess who didn't keep up with the SOYO website where an UPDATE not so
much of the board but rather manufacturer memory updates showed that the
same motherboard could handle PC3200 DDR memory! Thus, when the prices
remained low, I went from PC2100 to PC3200 and the difference was
dramatic! So too, my board permits 'tinkering' with the BIOS and thus I
was able to get away with setting a lower memory CAS and it worked fine.
The board had the memory set for 3.0 CAS and I lowered it to 2.5 and it
still worked without problems. Ditto the CPU where I upped the P4 Intel
2.4B chip to 2.6 without incident. I just ordered a 2.8 gig CPU however
because the prices have fallen dramatically on that too.

Ahhhh, there are so many variables that one can go nuts trying to get
the most beneficial settings! But I'm quite satisfied if the sim flies
without the stutters or frame freezes. BTW, again this just me, if you
can't see a noticeable difference and I mean 'noticeable' difference in
using anti-aliasing, dump it [if the 'jaggies' don't look much different
then 'with' anti-aliasing] because what you save NOT using same will go
towards better frame rates and overall performance. I find that for
every extra 'make-it-better' video card setting, there is generally a
price to pay at the expense of 'overall' card performance!

Doc Tony


Dashi wrote:
There are also a lot of complaints about the lack of decent drivers for the
ATI 9800 series of video cards. It appears that they don't work very well
with FS9.

Be happy that you didn't buy one.

The latest mid range Nvidia card is the FX5700 and has received excellent
reviews, just in time for Xmas!

Dashi

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

Question is, George, will it fly for that ATI 9800 Pro? Although, just
for those reading, there are some good deals floating around on a more
reasonable alternative and I got the Nvidia GeForce FX5600 AGP 8X
w/256megs of on-board DDR video and thus far it's worked well. Caveat:
The 'secret' to that Nvidia card, and I'll put this out to, is the
Nvidia DRIVER! Free at the Nvidia website but the latest drivers will
prevent that color 'smearing' effect in the gauges of the sims that the
earlier drivers caused. Not a bad card at least in terms of the
discounted price. Sure, I'd like that ATI Radeon 9800 Pro but the tag
for same [$375-$400 is the lowest I've seen] is right up there! But
then, like everything else, I just jumped from PC2100 DDR to PC3200 DDR
memory and the prices are excellent! Brand stuff to boot and 2.5 CAS!!





  #30  
Old November 16th 03, 11:37 PM
Dashi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

Sometimes I think it's a giant crap shoot [choice of video card] of
sorts because there are so many variables involved.


That's true, you just have to buy what you think is best for your system at
that particular time.

Dashi


 




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