Is the 787 a failure ?

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

I know I sure have fewer regrets than you
cosmo folks. And, I like it that way. Now, I've
got to go shovel up after my mule.

Christopher A. Young

Any illusion of culture Alistair Cooke may have given us went down the
loo when we saw Benny Hill and Mr. Bean.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:58:11 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 1/28/2013 8:39 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:28:36 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 1/28/2013 7:03 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Mr.B1ack" wrote:

And Boeing didn't spin fast enough to prevent the
perception of the 787 becoming that of a flaming
deathtrap.


Who has died aboard a 787?

No one.

How many people are afraid they might have died in one if they hadn't
been ordered out of service?


More people die on american roads in one year than have died in
aircraft accidents in 50 years.
Every year 47 Americans die on the road for every one who dies in the
air or coming out of it. Yet people get into cars and busses every
day.

Sure, but considering only safety, would you rather drive a Nissan 350Z
with 143 driver fatalities per million registered vehicle years, or a
BMW 7 series with only 11 fatalities per million?
http://www.statisticbrain.com/driver...-by-auto-make/

The point is, within any *given* mode of transportation, people don't
want to use dangerous vehicles if they have a choice, /ceteris paribus/.
If the 787 is dangerous and a 777 isn't, people will want to fly on
the 777.


The most dangerous part on a 350Z is generally the nut holding the
wheel.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:50:31 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
om...

"Mr.B1ack" wrote:
And Boeing didn't spin fast enough to prevent the
perception of the 787 becoming that of a flaming
deathtrap.

Who has died aboard a 787?

Has Airbus fixed the faults that allowed a functional A330 to stall
and fall out of the sky without informing its crew?
jsw

Like the nut holding the wheel of the 350z, the pilots of that plane
were awfully close to brain dead to allow that to happen. They were
just playing a video game - NOT FLYING THE PLANE. All the warnings
were there except for the indicators on the instrument panel.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:50:31 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:4ZqdnVrwRseNoZrMnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink. com...

"Mr.B1ack" wrote:
And Boeing didn't spin fast enough to prevent the
perception of the 787 becoming that of a flaming
deathtrap.

Who has died aboard a 787?

Has Airbus fixed the faults that allowed a functional A330 to stall
and fall out of the sky without informing its crew?
jsw

Like the nut holding the wheel of the 350z, the pilots of that plane
were awfully close to brain dead to allow that to happen. They were
just playing a video game - NOT FLYING THE PLANE. All the warnings
were there except for the indicators on the instrument panel.

All the warnings were NOT there, and the ones they had were
misleading. The stall indicator shut off below a minimum airspeed and
came on when they correctly put the nose down and gained speed. The
stalled plane remained fairly level and controllable in pitch as it
fell at a very low forward airspeed, a condition the FCS apparently
didn't understand. Roll control was harder and kept them occupied.
They advanced the throttles to TakeOff/Go-Around power and kept the
nose slightly high, which SHOULD have been the proper procedure if
they'd had more airspeed. At night in a storm they were purely on IFR,
with no visual cues and airspeed indicators that had been and could
still be(?) reading low only because they had iced up.

On 1/29/2013 8:50 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Max Boot" wrote in message
.. .

You are the classic example of why cosmopolitan Europeans and Asians
mock Americans: a bumpkin, a rube, someone who thinks everything in
the world worth seeing and knowing is within a two hour mule ride
from your shack.


The most egregious example I've heard of that ****ant cultural
snobbery was from Indian expats who couldn't understand how their
sophisticated ancient culture had been overtaken by Northern Europeans
who lived in wattle and daub (mud) huts until very recently, by their
time frame.

What cultural snobbery are you ****ing and moaning about? Are you
saying that you resent people who are well traveled and knowledgeable
about other parts of the world telling you what a benighted bumpkin you
are? The average American *is* a benighted bumpkin. It's the height of
the most despicable and dangerous arrogance that the US presumes to
dictate to the rest of the world how things ought to be, and the vast
majority of Americans have no ****ing clue about how any other part of
the world actually is. It's exactly that kind of ignorance mixed with
arrogance that produced the two monumentally disastrous wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

On 1/29/2013 7:42 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Max Boot" wrote in message
.. .
On 1/29/2013 7:04 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Has Airbus fixed the faults that allowed a functional A330 to
stall
and fall out of the sky without informing its crew?
jsw


You are the classic example of why cosmopolitan Europeans and Asians
mock Americans: a bumpkin, a rube, someone who thinks everything in
the world worth seeing and knowing is within a two hour mule ride
from your shack.

http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flig...t.final.en.php
CVR 2h 11m 43.0
"qu'est-ce qui se passe ? je ne sais pas je sais pas ce qui se passe"
"on a tout perdu le contrôle de l'avion on comprend rien on a tout
tenté"

It doesn't take much to bring out the angry frustrated child in you.

Struck a nerve, I see. I'm guessing you've never traveled. In fact,
it's all but a certainty.

"Max Boot" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 8:50 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

So Europeans are fully justified in crucifying Boeing over a battery
that harmed no one, but Americans MUST NOT embarrassingly mention the
fatal crash of an Airbus that was in perfect working condition when it
smashed into the ocean?

Such fragile egos!

I learned all my English culture and manners from
Monty Python's Flying Circus.

My horse likes to watch Mr. Rogers' Neigh......
borhood.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

Any illusion of culture Alistair Cooke may
have given us went down the
loo when we saw Benny Hill and Mr. Bean.

On 1/29/2013 11:40 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Max Boot" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 8:50 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

So Europeans are fully justified in crucifying Boeing over a battery
that harmed no one, but Americans MUST NOT embarrassingly mention the
fatal crash of an Airbus that was in perfect working condition when it
smashed into the ocean?

Such fragile egos!

Okay, so you're not just an untraveled rube and bumpkin, you're also
hyper-nationalistic and sensitive about being an untraveled rube.

I haven't seen anything to suggest Europeans are "crucifying" [sic]
Boeing over the battery problem. You seem to be trying to downplay it.
It's a serious problem, and it has led to the *American* FAA grounding
all the planes. While ice in the pitot tubes is suspected of producing
the faulty airspeed readings, the main cause of the crash of the Air
France A330 was pilot error. They might conceivably have safely flown
the plane either back to Brazil or on to France. By contrast, if a
battery fire in a 787 ever spread, the plane most likely would crash.

The battery problem is serious and needs to be corrected, and not
pooh-poohed by insanely nationalistic Americans who stupidly read too
much into a Boeing-Airbus competition. Also...Americans need to get out
of their general provincialism.

"Max Boot" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 7:42 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Struck a nerve, I see. I'm guessing you've never traveled. In
fact, it's all but a certainty.

Don't hire yourself out as a detective.

I wore out a set of Reifen travelling around Europe as a field sevice
repairman for two years.