Avgas in France has reached $7.50/gal !

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Jay, this is total BS. The amount raised from the tax on avgas is $60
million annually. It doesn't even begin to pay for flight service
stations
nevermind airports or anything else. Even AOPA achknowleged this in a
recent magazine. If we were to support airports with a gas tax gas
would
be
$7.80...or more...


Does the tax on Jet-A and other fees support the airlines usages?

Has anyone ever done a complete breakout of costs vs. revenue of the air
transport system at all levels?

Interestingly, I recall a few articles a few years ago the over-the-road
trucks pay roughly half of taxes and fees for the interstate and state
highways, but they cause more than 3/4ths of wear-and-tear and damage.

When someone else foots the bill, new and more efficient processes and
technologies never seem to get implemented as quickly as when we pay our
own
way (like good, mature adults).



One last thing; the current FSS is, IMO, a throwback to the olden days
before long distance phones and high speed communications. Every big city
doesn't need a FSS, and especially doesn't need several. My take is it's a
jobs program for otherwise unemployable controllers ( :~) ) just like most
of the "education" system.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:sp_9e.6987$WI3.4028@attbi_s71...
Jay, this is total BS. The amount raised from the tax on avgas is $60
million annually. It doesn't even begin to pay for flight service
stations nevermind airports or anything else. Even AOPA achknowleged
this in a recent magazine. If we were to support airports with a gas tax
gas would be $7.80...or more...

Allow me to re-phrase that more precisely.

In Iowa, if the Iowa legislature didn't keep spending all of the tax money
brought in by aviation on things other than aviation, we wouldn't be
scraping for money to repave our ramp. We would have ample money in the
coffers to properly maintain our airport(s).

Hell, during a recent "budget crisis" year (aren't they all?), they
eliminated ALL spending on aviation in the state. But they sure didn't
cut any taxes.


While the states should keep their promises, aviation would still be
subsidized. Aviation has a very small number of participants exclusively
using a large amount of infrastructure. I am not saying that this subsidy
is good or bad but I am merely asserting that it exists.

Mike
MU-2

"Morgans" wrote in message
news

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Sorry, Martin. Here's more bad news for Europe and Austria:

From AOPA's member news area:
"And with that, Dries dropped a bomb. Diamond, he said, is establishing
what
it calls the Diamond China Project, a new manufacturing facility that
will
be built "about 300 kilometers east of Beijing." Site construction began
one
month ago, and it will be twice the size of Diamond's Austrian
facility -
and capable of employing 1,700 employees and building 600 aircraft a
year.
Eventually, all propeller-driven Diamond aircraft will be built at the
Chinese plant, starting with DA40s. The first DA40 will roll out the
so-called "Aviation City" factory doors by year-end."

Good Lord help us all! I suppose they will be made with China steel.
That
is the softest, inconsistent crap have ever seen, let alone all the other
made in China crap.
--
Jim in NC

Get used to it, China is the up and coming manufacturing world power. They
will do what Japan did in the '60s and '70s at a scale that will make what
Japan did look like childs play.

"MR" == Mike Rapoport writes:
MR While the states should keep their promises, aviation would
MR still be subsidized. Aviation has a very small number of
MR participants exclusively using a large amount of
MR infrastructure. I am not saying that this subsidy is good or
MR bad but I am merely asserting that it exists.

The subsidy surely does exist, and it's huge. As I recall from
discussions about our local airport:

- The FAA, from the Federal Airport Improvement Program, will pay 90%
of the costs for airport improvement (runway widening or extension or
resurfacing, taxiways, aprons, and so forth). There's no way that the
Feds' AIP is paid completely by aviation related taxes.

- The remaining 10% must come from local or state. Here in California
there is a state airport department (part of the state DOT), and sure
enough the funds they collect get stolen most years to the General
Fund. But at most they would pay for 10%.

- Then the airport owner is usually required to kick in 1% to 2% so
the state doesn't pay the full 10%. In our case the Univ. of
California owns our airport, and they get airport money not from
taxes, but from hangar rentals and gasoline sales. I don't know
whether the airport is a source or sink of money for the UC.

GA is highly subsidized in the US, and like Mike I won't comment
further if that's good or bad.

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Now you've done it, Jim, you racist pig. How DARE you launch a wholesale
assault on another culture?

Chuckle

;-)

Hey, I wonder how many years (months?) it will be before GA in China
over-takes what's left of GA in France?

ducking!

You better! g

Seriously, though, at least France has some degree of personal freedom left.

The pity is, China is giving us (the US) exzacary what they want. Cheap, at
all costs. I hope we wake up, before it is too late, and we have no
manufacturing and quality in the US, but I fear we will not.

I hope the consensus standards board, or if the Symphony (or any other
made in China airplanes) are to be certified, I hope they tear it apart stem
to stern, and check every part for hardness, fatigue, and any other test
they can think of. I can only imagine airplanes falling from the sky, just
like the public thinks is going to happen. One thing for certain; I will
not be flying in a made in China airplane.

I wonder how many others feel the same way.
--
Jim in NC

"Dave Stadt" wrote

Get used to it, China is the up and coming manufacturing world power.
They
will do what Japan did in the '60s and '70s at a scale that will make what
Japan did look like childs play.

I know, but I DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT.

I CERTAINLY don't have to buy it.

Is this same thing happening in Europe?

How many years will it be until China's quality comes up, like Japan finally
did?
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:J4O9e.5871$c24.1511@attbi_s72...
We do, indeed, have the most dunderheaded legal system ever devised by
man.

Yes, but are you willing to admit that makes YOU a dunderhead? That is,
will you agree with the French who express their disbelief that people so
dunderheaded ever spawned men like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams?

Jay Honeck wrote:

You admit that predatory taxation has added 25% to the cost of GA in France
(which is a gross under-estimation, BTW)

On what "knowledge" is your statement based? Mine is based on calculation.

-- and in the same breath say that
it has NO impact on it?

Please be accurate. I said that is has no impact on the number of
private pilots. Each of those pilots will probably fly fewer hours per
year, though, because private pilots tend to fly on a budget.

That is the most absurd assertion I've seen in Usenet

Maybe, but it is based on a thorough knowledge of the local scene, while
your statements are based on nothing else than prejudice from thousands
of miles away. (BTW: Wasn't Blix' statement that the Iraq didn't have
WMDs the most absurd assertion, too? Sorry, couldn't resist, but I see a
pattern.)

Stefan

Dave Stadt wrote:

Get used to it, China is the up and coming manufacturing world power. They
will do what Japan did in the '60s and '70s at a scale that will make what
Japan did look like childs play.

Yes, but they also will likely suffer the same fate as Japan when their
costs catch up to the rest of the world.

Matt

Morgans wrote:

"Dave Stadt" wrote

Get used to it, China is the up and coming manufacturing world power.

They

will do what Japan did in the '60s and '70s at a scale that will make what
Japan did look like childs play.


I know, but I DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT.

I CERTAINLY don't have to buy it.

Is this same thing happening in Europe?

How many years will it be until China's quality comes up, like Japan finally
did?

I'm estimating 3-5 years.

Matt