"zero" versus "oscar" versus "sierra"

I fly an airplane whose last two digits in its identifier are "0P"
(indicating that it's an OurPlane aircraft). Of course, OurPlane would
have liked it to be "OP" instead, but the FAA won't allow "oscar" in
aircraft identifiers, only "zero".

It happens that there's another airplane at my airport with the exact
same identifier identifier except that it ends in "SP". In the air it
turns out that "zero poppa" and "sierra poppa" sound an awful lot alike
(try it), which has occasionally led to confusion when both planes are
in the pattern. (I've taken to saying a very exaggerated version of
ZEEEEEE-ROW-OOOO when I'm flying.) Allowing "zero poppa" to be "oscar
poppa" instead would alleviate this confusion. Does anyone know what it
would take to try to make this case to the FAA to try to get them to
change their minds?

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

I fly an airplane whose last two digits in its identifier are "0P"
(indicating that it's an OurPlane aircraft). Of course, OurPlane would
have liked it to be "OP" instead, but the FAA won't allow "oscar" in
aircraft identifiers, only "zero".

It happens that there's another airplane at my airport with the exact
same identifier identifier except that it ends in "SP". In the air it
turns out that "zero poppa" and "sierra poppa" sound an awful lot alike
(try it), which has occasionally led to confusion when both planes are
in the pattern. (I've taken to saying a very exaggerated version of
ZEEEEEE-ROW-OOOO when I'm flying.) Allowing "zero poppa" to be "oscar
poppa" instead would alleviate this confusion. Does anyone know what it
would take to try to make this case to the FAA to try to get them to
change their minds?


Would the confusion be alleviated if you used the last three characters
instead of just the last two?

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

I fly an airplane whose last two digits in its identifier are "0P"
(indicating that it's an OurPlane aircraft). Of course, OurPlane would
have liked it to be "OP" instead, but the FAA won't allow "oscar" in
aircraft identifiers, only "zero".

It happens that there's another airplane at my airport with the exact
same identifier identifier except that it ends in "SP". In the air it
turns out that "zero poppa" and "sierra poppa" sound an awful lot alike
(try it), which has occasionally led to confusion when both planes are
in the pattern. (I've taken to saying a very exaggerated version of
ZEEEEEE-ROW-OOOO when I'm flying.) Allowing "zero poppa" to be "oscar
poppa" instead would alleviate this confusion. Does anyone know what it
would take to try to make this case to the FAA to try to get them to
change their minds?


Would the confusion be alleviated if you used the last three characters
instead of just the last two?

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero. Are the aircraft the same type?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not
used in identifiers to avoid confusion with zero. Are the aircraft
the same type?

This reminds me of an interesting radio exchange I heard at DVT a few weeks ago. There was an
airplane departing with a zero in its call sign, I can't remember, but let's say N1023A. The pilot, called
himself "one-oh-two-three-alpha". The controller never corrected him on this and never offered him a
shortened call sign, but instead responded to him as "november one oscar two three alpha". The pilot
didn't catch on for the longest time, continuing to read this back as "one oh two three alpha". The
controller continued to give him extra traffic callouts and instructions, still with the full "oscar" ident, until
finally the pilot woke up and realized the situation and said, "and tower, that's one zero two three alpha",
to which the controller just said "thank you" and that was the end of it. The games people play....

Mike

"Mike Adams" wrote in message
newskIwd.56$iD.12@fed1read05...
This reminds me of an interesting radio exchange I heard at DVT a few
weeks ago. There was an
airplane departing with a zero in its call sign, I can't remember, but
let's say N1023A. The pilot, called
himself "one-oh-two-three-alpha". The controller never corrected him on
this and never offered him a
shortened call sign, but instead responded to him as "november one oscar
two three alpha". The pilot
didn't catch on for the longest time, continuing to read this back as "one
oh two three alpha". The
controller continued to give him extra traffic callouts and instructions,
still with the full "oscar" ident, until
finally the pilot woke up and realized the situation and said, "and tower,
that's one zero two three alpha",
to which the controller just said "thank you" and that was the end of it.
The games people play....

Mike

I used to fly Learjet N1DC. We would always check on as One Dallas Cowboys.
The controllers everywhere would come back the same except the ones in the
northeast. Of course this was back when the Cowboys were winning Superbowls.
: )

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero. Are the aircraft the same type?

I'm not sure. 880P is a Cirrus. I thought 88SP was a Cessna, but
Google says it's a King Air. I've never actually seen 88SP.

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used
in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero. Are the aircraft the same
type?

I'm not sure. 880P is a Cirrus. I thought 88SP was a Cessna, but
Google says it's a King Air. I've never actually seen 88SP.

I would identify myself as "Cirrus 880P", adding the "cessna" helps other
pilots to identify you in heavy traffic anyway.


rg

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero.

One could just as easily decide that the number 0 is not used in
aircraft identifiers to avoid confusion with the letter O. Nothing
would actually have to change.

Are the aircraft the same type?

I don't think so, but the VNY controllers don't call out the aircraft
type. They always open with "November".

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

One could just as easily decide that the number 0 is not used in
aircraft identifiers to avoid confusion with the letter O. Nothing
would actually have to change.


One is not free to decide that. The letters I and O are not used for
aircraft registration in the US. FAR 47.15(b) would have to change.


§ 47.15 Identification number.

(b) A U.S. identification number may not exceed five symbols in addition
to
the prefix letter "N". These symbols may be all numbers (N10000), one to
four numbers and one suffix letter (N 1000A), or one to three numbers and
two suffix letters (N 100AB). The letters "I" and "O" may not be used. The
first zero in a number must always be preceded by at least one of the
numbers 1 through 9.



I don't think so, but the VNY controllers don't call out the aircraft
type. They always open with "November".


You are free to open with the type regardless what the controller does.