No more "Left Downwind"?

There is a "Skypark"
listed on the back of the 1965 sectional, the coordinates are 37 03-122 02,
which puts it about four miles north of Santa Cruz. I can scan that area
for you, but you'll find much more information he

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CA/...html#santacruz

Thanks. No scan necessary, I think that was it. I remember landing and
taking off to the northwest (dropping off a passenger and chatting a
while). It was windy and the landing was exciting (but a greaser), and
on departure one of the old timers told me to be careful of sink off the
departure end, but that it would go away as I kept going. Sure enough,
we took off, got about a hundred or two feet in the air, and the terrain
dropped below us. We went down, but kept going, and went back up again,
for an uneventful takeoff. It was nice to be ready for it.

When we landed again at Oakland, ATC wanted to know where we were... we
had a flight plan open, and didn't think to amend it to account for the
extra hour chatting on the field. tsk tsk.

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Would you be willing to sell the 1943? That was the year I was born and I
have an original of the Grass Valley newspaper for the date of my birth and
a pocket piece 1943 half-dollar that I've had since my gramma gave it to me
for my tenth birthday -- and a few magazines (Life, Good Housekeeping, and a
few more). I've never been able to find a sectional from that year.

If you don't want to sell it, can you recommend a good source for old
sectionals?

Jim



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

You have old charts?

Many.



Do you perchance have the SF sectional from around 1980?


I have San Francisco sectionals from 1987, 1965, 1958, 1947, and 1943.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

Would you be willing to sell the 1943? That was the year I was born and I
have an original of the Grass Valley newspaper for the date of my birth
and a pocket piece 1943 half-dollar that I've had since my gramma gave it
to me for my tenth birthday -- and a few magazines (Life, Good
Housekeeping, and a few more). I've never been able to find a sectional
from that year.

If you don't want to sell it, can you recommend a good source for old
sectionals?


Sorry, I'm not interested in selling it. If you hurled a high enough figure
my way that could change, but I doubt you'd go high enough. I recommend
eBay. Set up an account, save a search of "San Francisco Sectional" in your
favorites and select email notification.

I just looked at the photo, another mall .


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
in message
link.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:qUDLg.7093$SZ3.2345@dukeread04...
|
|
|
http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid...02&sa=N&tab=wl
|
| looks like the remains of an airport.
|
|
| Did you examine the map view? To the west of the old
runway are "Skypark
| Drive", "Piper Cub Court", "Navigator Drive", and "Aviator
Court".
|
|

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:17:40 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
.net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

Because I operate out of KSNA, that's an interesting bit of (old) news
to me. I can't put my hands on an old chart at the moment. Can you
tell me how the MCAS El Toro Class D airspace was structured if it
didn't reach the surface?


I could, but since I can put my hands on old charts I'll just scan the
portion of the Los Angeles sectional from 1987 and 1997 showing El Toro and
post them in alt.binaries.pictures.aviation.



Many thanks.

Because of the clutter and close proximity of the three airports, this
is not an easy chart to read. I presume the thick, blue, slashed,
concentric circles centered on El Toro depict the Class C airspace,
and the thinner blue dashed 'keyhole' shaped circle centered on El
Toro depicts its Control Zone much the same as Class D airspace is
currently depicted on current charts. The wedge shaped area south of
El Toro refereed to in the Special Notice, doesn't appear to be
depicted as Class D nor part of the CZ, as it isn't bounded by the
typical Class D boundary depiction. However, it is effectively Class
D, as it is necessary to contact ATC (the tower?) to operate within
it.

So when you said:

El Toro MCAS used to have Class D airspace adjacent to the Class C
airspace that didn't even reach the surface.

was it the Special Notice airspace to which you were referring?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...
Well, if it was three feet off the centerline while the mains were
equidistant from it because he was crabbed into a nonexistent crosswind...

Not quite... The aircraft was straightened out before touchdown... I was
just 3 ft off the side of it... At least according to him... An argument
could e made that each of our angles of view were offset from the actual
centerline of the aircraft, so perhaps it only looked like I was 3 ft off...

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Would you be willing to sell the 1943? That was the year I was born and I
have an original of the Grass Valley newspaper for the date of my birth
and
a pocket piece 1943 half-dollar that I've had since my gramma gave it to
me
for my tenth birthday -- and a few magazines (Life, Good Housekeeping, and
a
few more). I've never been able to find a sectional from that year.

So, I suspect that you also have a 1943 steel penny in your collection,
right? How about a 1943 *copper* penny?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Many thanks.

Because of the clutter and close proximity of the three airports, this
is not an easy chart to read. I presume the thick, blue, slashed,
concentric circles centered on El Toro depict the Class C airspace,
and the thinner blue dashed 'keyhole' shaped circle centered on El
Toro depicts its Control Zone much the same as Class D airspace is
currently depicted on current charts. The wedge shaped area south of
El Toro refereed to in the Special Notice, doesn't appear to be
depicted as Class D nor part of the CZ, as it isn't bounded by the
typical Class D boundary depiction. However, it is effectively Class
D, as it is necessary to contact ATC (the tower?) to operate within
it.

So when you said:

El Toro MCAS used to have Class D airspace adjacent to the Class C
airspace that didn't even reach the surface.

was it the Special Notice airspace to which you were referring?


Did you download both charts? They were uploaded separately due to their
size.

Airspace reclassification happened in 1993. The 1987 chart depicts the El
Toro ARSA which became the El Toro Class C and is depicted on the 1997
chart. The area of concern is south of the MCAS, it overlies Dana Point and
extends to the north to abut and underlie the El Toro ARSA/Class C. On the
1987 chart it is designated "MCAS El Toro Special Air Traffic Rules", see
the bold blue arrow at the bottom left of the image. On the 1997 chart it
is designated Class D airspace, see the not quite as bold blue arrow in a
similar position.

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:24:54 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:

Did you download both charts? They were uploaded separately due to their
size.

Yes. But I just looked at the older one. Sorry.

Airspace reclassification happened in 1993. The 1987 chart depicts the El
Toro ARSA which became the El Toro Class C and is depicted on the 1997
chart. The area of concern is south of the MCAS, it overlies Dana Point and
extends to the north to abut and underlie the El Toro ARSA/Class C. On the
1987 chart it is designated "MCAS El Toro Special Air Traffic Rules", see
the bold blue arrow at the bottom left of the image. On the 1997 chart it
is designated Class D airspace, see the not quite as bold blue arrow in a
similar position.

You are absolutely correct.

Thank you for all the effort.

On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 08:29:37 -0700, "BTIZ"
wrote:


"john smith" wrote in message
...
left is standard.. right traffic is on the chart with annotations for the
airport along with the airport elevation, lighting, runway length and
frequency.. as in
JEAN (0L7)
2832 *L 46 122.9
RP 2R 20R
or
Sky Ranch (3L2)
2599 - 33 123.0
RP 12

Interesting. I have never seen it.

Does that mean you never go into an airport with a designated right had
traffic pattern?
Or does that mean that you never look at your charts?

Charts? You carry charts?

Out of 60 pilots at proficiency training only one had up-to-date
sectionals. Many didn't have any and these are people flying expensive
singles and twins for the most part.

A couple years back, maybe 3 or 4, I was coming into the local airport
from the north to join down wind for 06. Just about the time I
announced I was turning down wind for 06 so did another plane. This
really gets your attention and no matter what attitude I put the plane
in I could not see him and I was checking both sides of the runway. I
asked "where are you" several times and he dutifully replied, "down
wind for 06" and began to sound a bit peeved by the third time I
asked. I was on base before I finally found him. He had been on an
up wind (why I don't know) and no more than a short city block from
the runway. He did a U-turn around the departure end of 06 and flew
down wind no more than a hundred yards from the runway. He might
have been as high as 200 feet. Maybe 300 over the houses and fair
grounds. (I hadn't been looking that low and he was pretty well
camouflaged against the back ground) I was coming down final when he
made a sudden U-turn from down wind to final right in front of me.
Good thing the Deb is predictable as slow speed.

In the time I could do a 360, and get back on final he'd picked up a
passenger, pulled out in front of me *again* and departed. At least
the second time I didn't have to go around although giving chase did
cross my mine. :-)) Several other options also crossed my mind, but
I dismissed them all as I wanted to keep my ticket.

Just call the guy from the FAA an idiot and please let the rest of us
know where you are in the pattern.

IFR? IFR = I follow Roads.

just kidding..
BT

You only thought you were. :-))




Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com