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#11
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
On Jun 27, 4:18*pm, "BT" wrote:
Does anyone know what the Fee is for the 10yr FCC certificate application for a base station or mobile mount? [snip] Or handheld or *any* air-band radio used outside a registered domestic aircraft the 10 year fee is $215.00 $115.00 for non-profit All that info and more is a click or two from the URL I gave before. Sign up on the FCC web site and get an "FRN" (FCC Registraion Number) so you can use the online ULS (Universal Licensing System) for online licensing. Again start at http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...craft_stations While I like to complain about ULS it is better than snail mail. Darryl |
#12
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
One of our members checked with the FCC on whether we need to license
our handhelds (used by the club for operations) as we don't have a base station. The working on the FCC web site says, "You are required to have a separate Ground Station license to operate your radio on the ground." It doesn't make a distinction between handheld or base station, only that it is being operated on the ground (versus the air). There must be a division of responsibility between the FAA and FCC on operating a radio in the air versus on the ground. Anyway, from our club's standpoint we need to renew our license and are working on that. But from my personal standpoint, do I need a license to use my handheld on the ground? How about a radio in a chase vehicle? I suppose I am a much more difficult target to hit than a fixed base operator. My $0.02. - John DeRosa |
#13
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
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#14
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
Sorry for the multiple posts. Just found this at;
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...round_stations. Note that gliders are specifically mentioned. "Aviation support stations are airborne and ground stations used for pilot training, soaring (with gliders), or free ballooning." Now, what does that mean? - John =============== About Ground Stations The FCC regulates the Aviation Services in cooperation with the Federal Aviation Administration. Wherever aviation services are provided in US territory, both FAA and FCC requirements must be met by anyone who uses aviation radio. The FCC authorizes different types of aviation ground stations for air-to-ground operations. Flight safety is the primary purpose of all Aviation Services. Aeronautical and Fixed ServiceAeronautical advisory stations, also called Unicom stations, are land stations used for advising pilots of private aircraft about local airport conditions. They are not used to control aircraft in flight. Aeronautical multicom stations provide communications between private aircraft and a ground facility for temporary, seasonal, or emergency activities like crop dusting, livestock herding, forest firefighting, aerial advertising, parachute jumping, etc. In some cases, multicom stations may be authorized to serve as unicom stations. Aeronautical enroute stations are used by aircraft owners or operators for operational control and flight management of their aircraft. They have access to these stations by cooperative arrangement, but any pilot with a flight emergency may use these stations without prior agreement. Flight test stations are airborne and ground stations used only to pass information or instructions concerning tests of aircraft or airborne components. Aviation support stations are airborne and ground stations used for pilot training, soaring (with gliders), or free ballooning. Airport control tower stationsprovide all necessary communications between an airport control tower and all arriving and departing aircraft. They are used to maintain an efficient flow of traffic for aircraft taxiing, landing, and takeoff and for all vehicle movement on the airfield. For vehicle movement on the airfield, airport control tower stations communicate with aeronautical utility mobile stations Automatic weather observation stations provide updated weather broadcasts for a specific landing area. Aviation Auxiliary GroupAeronautical search and rescue stations are used for air-to-ground communications during actual or practice search and rescue operations, or for search and rescue training. Aeronautical utility mobile stations are installed in vehicles that provide maintenance, fire and crash protection, freight handling, or other group support normally under control tower direction at an airport. They are used for both operational and emergency communications. |
#15
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian |
#16
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
Is there any way we can get the SSA to get a single blanket FCC license to
cover all SSA members using handhelds during glider operations? This would be a great additional member benefit!!! Mike Schumann "brianDG303" wrote in message ... OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian |
#17
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
At 16:47 28 June 2009, brianDG303 wrote:
OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian I did a bit better than you. I eventually got AA to work. Got through the first few pages. But its seems that aliens cannot get licenses - so I gave up. Darryl - have you actually tried this yourself - or do you not use a handheld outside of an aircraft? Jim |
#18
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
On Jun 28, 5:30*pm, Jim Britton wrote:
At 16:47 28 June 2009, brianDG303 wrote: OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian I did a bit better than you. I eventually got AA to work. Got through the first few pages. But its seems that aliens cannot get licenses - so I gave up. Darryl - have you actually tried this yourself - or do you not use a handheld outside of an aircraft? Jim Hi Jim I use ULS for my amateur radio license and a GMRS license (that has currently lapsed and I don't use) I have no FCC aeronautical license - as you say I don't have a need. BTW you need an AF not AA subtype. And to Answer John DerRosa's questions (again) yes you technically need an "Aeronautical and Fixed" AF sub-type license for a handheld (or any air band radio) if used outside of use in an aircraft. If I am at the airport and transmitting a safety message etc. I'll be "N26DX on the ground". The details of whether you need to be sitting in the aircraft etc. I'll leave to you and the friendly FCC inspector. What is clear but is if you have a mobile setup or handheld in a crew vehicle or a base station at an FBO or club etc. you need a license and I think that is entirely OK. And Mike, no this is not somethign the SSA should pursue. I am sure the FCC see the point as licensing and enforcing radio transmitters and requiring a standard of behavior and a way to go after people that transgress those rules and shut the down violators (by removing their license and more if needed). With the FAA/FCC arrangement I believe the FCC can go after your FAA licenses. With a ground crew and a radio what do they do? Well they go after you first for not having an FCC license. Do you want the SSA to charge every member $200 or so for a ten year license and have to deal with FCC paperwork? The regulations controlling this are laws, the FCC can't just give way licenses to individuals though large organizations. And remember my warning earlier about not stirring up things you do not know the outcome from. Darryl |
#19
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
Back in 1996, the FCC issued an NPRM to address the issue of licensing
handheld radios for ground personal to communicate with aircraft (see http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/.../fcc96407.txt). The proposal was to permit an unlimited number of handhelds to be included in a single license to minimize the administrative burden on the FCC and the public. I don't know if this was adopted or not. If it was, it should be possible for a club to get a single 10 year license for $115 (assuming the club is a non-profit), that would cover all of its members at that location. The question then becomes, can this license cover radios being used on a retrieve away from the airport? How about temporary remote operations at another airport? I suspect that 95% of soaring clubs, glider pilots and/or retrieve crews that use handhelds on the ground are currently not licensed, and have no idea that licensing is required. Given what happened to the TSA, this is an issue that can't be swept under the carpet. I am willing to bet that the FCC would be very willing to come up with a reasonable solution to handheld aviation radio licensing that would limit operations to legitimate glider related uses, without subjecting the FCC and the glider community to the cost and administrative burden associated with issuing a separate license to every single handheld radio. Working out an arrangement between the FCC and the SSA to issue a single license to the SSA for all SSA members would be a relatively simple and straightforward way to solve this problem. Under the current fee schedule this would cost the SSA $115 once every 10 years. One way or the other, this issue needs to be addressed. Since this is affects the entire glider community, the SSA should be involved in coming up with a solution, regardless of whether or not it becomes the holder of the FCC license or comes up with some other solution. Mike Schumann "Darryl Ramm" wrote in message ... On Jun 28, 5:30 pm, Jim Britton wrote: At 16:47 28 June 2009, brianDG303 wrote: OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian I did a bit better than you. I eventually got AA to work. Got through the first few pages. But its seems that aliens cannot get licenses - so I gave up. Darryl - have you actually tried this yourself - or do you not use a handheld outside of an aircraft? Jim Hi Jim I use ULS for my amateur radio license and a GMRS license (that has currently lapsed and I don't use) I have no FCC aeronautical license - as you say I don't have a need. BTW you need an AF not AA subtype. And to Answer John DerRosa's questions (again) yes you technically need an "Aeronautical and Fixed" AF sub-type license for a handheld (or any air band radio) if used outside of use in an aircraft. If I am at the airport and transmitting a safety message etc. I'll be "N26DX on the ground". The details of whether you need to be sitting in the aircraft etc. I'll leave to you and the friendly FCC inspector. What is clear but is if you have a mobile setup or handheld in a crew vehicle or a base station at an FBO or club etc. you need a license and I think that is entirely OK. And Mike, no this is not somethign the SSA should pursue. I am sure the FCC see the point as licensing and enforcing radio transmitters and requiring a standard of behavior and a way to go after people that transgress those rules and shut the down violators (by removing their license and more if needed). With the FAA/FCC arrangement I believe the FCC can go after your FAA licenses. With a ground crew and a radio what do they do? Well they go after you first for not having an FCC license. Do you want the SSA to charge every member $200 or so for a ten year license and have to deal with FCC paperwork? The regulations controlling this are laws, the FCC can't just give way licenses to individuals though large organizations. And remember my warning earlier about not stirring up things you do not know the outcome from. Darryl |
#20
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Gliderport Fined $9,000 over Use of 123.3Mhz
Has anyone contacted a friend who is part of the "Balloon Community" to see how they handle this situation? It seems that their need for a resolution would be greater then ours. Maybe they have worked out something with the FCC that we could emulate.
"Mike Schumann" wrote in message ... Back in 1996, the FCC issued an NPRM to address the issue of licensing handheld radios for ground personal to communicate with aircraft (see http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/.../fcc96407.txt). The proposal was to permit an unlimited number of handhelds to be included in a single license to minimize the administrative burden on the FCC and the public. I don't know if this was adopted or not. If it was, it should be possible for a club to get a single 10 year license for $115 (assuming the club is a non-profit), that would cover all of its members at that location. The question then becomes, can this license cover radios being used on a retrieve away from the airport? How about temporary remote operations at another airport? I suspect that 95% of soaring clubs, glider pilots and/or retrieve crews that use handhelds on the ground are currently not licensed, and have no idea that licensing is required. Given what happened to the TSA, this is an issue that can't be swept under the carpet. I am willing to bet that the FCC would be very willing to come up with a reasonable solution to handheld aviation radio licensing that would limit operations to legitimate glider related uses, without subjecting the FCC and the glider community to the cost and administrative burden associated with issuing a separate license to every single handheld radio. Working out an arrangement between the FCC and the SSA to issue a single license to the SSA for all SSA members would be a relatively simple and straightforward way to solve this problem. Under the current fee schedule this would cost the SSA $115 once every 10 years. One way or the other, this issue needs to be addressed. Since this is affects the entire glider community, the SSA should be involved in coming up with a solution, regardless of whether or not it becomes the holder of the FCC license or comes up with some other solution. Mike Schumann "Darryl Ramm" wrote in message ... On Jun 28, 5:30 pm, Jim Britton wrote: At 16:47 28 June 2009, brianDG303 wrote: OK, I gave it a try and here was my result. I registered, got my ID number, and started to apply for a license. At step 3 you must select the type (which doesn't match up with the list posted in the last email) and there are three likely choices; AA- Aviation Auxiliary AC- Aircraft AF- Aeronautical and Fixed Selecting AC takes you down a path that quickly ends in License Not Required. AA and AF takes you to "connection failure- link is broken" and it is Game Over. There does not appear to be a way around the link I could find, so it does not appear possible to obtain a license using the system set up to issue licenses. Brian I did a bit better than you. I eventually got AA to work. Got through the first few pages. But its seems that aliens cannot get licenses - so I gave up. Darryl - have you actually tried this yourself - or do you not use a handheld outside of an aircraft? Jim Hi Jim I use ULS for my amateur radio license and a GMRS license (that has currently lapsed and I don't use) I have no FCC aeronautical license - as you say I don't have a need. BTW you need an AF not AA subtype. And to Answer John DerRosa's questions (again) yes you technically need an "Aeronautical and Fixed" AF sub-type license for a handheld (or any air band radio) if used outside of use in an aircraft. If I am at the airport and transmitting a safety message etc. I'll be "N26DX on the ground". The details of whether you need to be sitting in the aircraft etc. I'll leave to you and the friendly FCC inspector. What is clear but is if you have a mobile setup or handheld in a crew vehicle or a base station at an FBO or club etc. you need a license and I think that is entirely OK. And Mike, no this is not somethign the SSA should pursue. I am sure the FCC see the point as licensing and enforcing radio transmitters and requiring a standard of behavior and a way to go after people that transgress those rules and shut the down violators (by removing their license and more if needed). With the FAA/FCC arrangement I believe the FCC can go after your FAA licenses. With a ground crew and a radio what do they do? Well they go after you first for not having an FCC license. Do you want the SSA to charge every member $200 or so for a ten year license and have to deal with FCC paperwork? The regulations controlling this are laws, the FCC can't just give way licenses to individuals though large organizations. And remember my warning earlier about not stirring up things you do not know the outcome from. Darryl |
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