Glider Fire Sale

I enjoy the variety of perspectives here, be they political, sociological, meteorological, mechanical, or philosophical. Since so many guys are stuck without the opportunity to soar or better yet compete at soaring, they have to release their aggressions and frustrations somewhere. Here is as good a place as any lol.

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 8:56:10 AM UTC-4, b4soaring wrote:
What the predictions said was "if we do nothing, something bad will happen, but only if we do nothing.

Something is then done.

Something bad doesn't happen, at least not quite so bad.

It doesn't mean the predictions were wrong, just that the worst case scenarios were prevented:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqzicvDVcKg


On Saturday, 9 May 2020 01:04:01 UTC+1, wrote:
I think in this specific case, however, Neil Ferguson has a bit of a reputation for getting it not only wrong but way wrong. For example:

He was behind research resulting in the destruction of 11 million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that 150,000 people could die.

Predicted in 2002 that up to 50,000 people would die from mad cow disease in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from mad cow.

Predicted in 2005 that up to 150 million people would be killed from bird flu. Reality was that only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

Ferguson’s advice in 2009 said a ‘reasonable worst-case scenario’ was that the swine flu would kill 65,000 Brits. Reality was that swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.


Bingo. Just like the Y2K "bug" was not a hoax, rather it was resolved by proactive investment of billions.

Funny how many of the same people who want nothing done about pandemics are perfectly OK with trillions spent, and civil rights trampled, as long as it is perceived as a military response to a human, not natural, threat. The Soviet Union never attacked the US, does that mean those who advised to build the weapons were totally wrong?

Moshe what makes you think the folks who aren't buying into the virus fear plandemic bought into the Russian bear fear plandemic? Both are the same disease - Fear manufactured and pushed for profit and control. Most know Christian Russians are our greatest ally.
Pardon me while I fashion protective masks from worn out tshirts while hiding under my desk to protect myself from nuclear war.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 2:21:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Question for u guys. Do you think we are going to see a massive glider fire sale after this china virus deal subsides? I wonder if this crisis and its associated lack of flying opportunities is going to convince many of the non-die-hard guys to leave the sport and divest themselves of many good older machines.

Naa, no near free Russia unless maybe you build it.

I don't think there will be a fire sale unless there is a major economic collapse.

Covid is a temporary damper, but the joy of flying is still around.

Maybe some new feature, like easy self launching could obsolete the existing fleet?

... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned. After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned. After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

On Tue, 12 May 2020 08:25:02 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been
defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe
molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was
being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet
aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for
finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good
quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a
lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned.
After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel
was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how
well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong
people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time
getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

I've also travelled in the old Eastern Block (Hungary, Czechoslovakia and
Yugoslavia as was), mainly for free flight model competitions. I met
Russian and Ukrainian model fliers there and at World and European
Championships between 1975 and 2003. Drank a certain amount of vodka with
them too.

Fine fellows with a sharp, ironic sense of humour. I remember a fairly
liquid session with Alex Andriukov (he moved to the US and joined the
Macready organisation when the USSR broke up). We were comparing cities,
as you do, and we were amazed at the low cost of public transport in
Kiev. Alex just grinned and said "In USSR we have a saying 'State
pretends to pay us and we pretend to work'".

Most of them spoke good, idiomatic English and had obviously had a very
good education. While the USSR existed their education system was free
through to PhD if you were good enough, and they had a free night school
system available for those who dropped out at the minimum school leaving
age and then, a few years later, realised that they really needed some
qualifications.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Dick Schreder told the story of the Soviet pilots at the 1965 International contest in England would clandestinely come over and take measurements of his HP-12 when they thought he wasn't looking. But at the end of the contest, he gave them a complete set of drawings as a goodwill gesture.

He also told the story that the Russian pilot asked to fly the HP-12. Schreder, said "sure", but only if he could fly the Soviet KAI-14. After the flight, Schreder told the Russian pilot he should receive the Soviet Medal of Valor for flying that ship in the poor weather and small fields of England.

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 14:34:46 UTC-6, wrote:
Sad story and maybe somebody can help....

In early February, a good friend was killed in his AC-4C Russia glider. Now I'm helping his wife through some of the process of selling some of his outstanding equipment:

1. A meticulous trailer.
2. An unfinished AC-4C kit, still in the crate, that came from Aviastroitel in Russia. The plan was for his brother to complete the kit (sadly, his brother passed away from cancer a couple of years ago). I think it's taking up space in the barn....you would need a flat bed truck/trailer to move this thing. I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe molds, I don't exactly know). However, parts wise, you'd have a set of never-used flight controls, linkage, seat pan, etc.

Looking for advice on selling, pricing, and maybe somebody would want the kit....probably a current owner of an AC-4 that has space.

Kindly,
Erik van Weezendonk
Northern Virginia

Hi Erik,

I'm interested in this - if it's still available, please PM me at jtapson at gmail etc.

regards,
Jon

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2020 08:25:02 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been
defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe
molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was
being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet
aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for
finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good
quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a
lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned.
After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel
was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how
well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong
people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time
getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

I've also travelled in the old Eastern Block (Hungary, Czechoslovakia and
Yugoslavia as was), mainly for free flight model competitions. I met
Russian and Ukrainian model fliers there and at World and European
Championships between 1975 and 2003. Drank a certain amount of vodka with
them too.

Fine fellows with a sharp, ironic sense of humour. I remember a fairly
liquid session with Alex Andriukov (he moved to the US and joined the
Macready organisation when the USSR broke up). We were comparing cities,
as you do, and we were amazed at the low cost of public transport in
Kiev. Alex just grinned and said "In USSR we have a saying 'State
pretends to pay us and we pretend to work'".

Most of them spoke good, idiomatic English and had obviously had a very
good education. While the USSR existed their education system was free
through to PhD if you were good enough, and they had a free night school
system available for those who dropped out at the minimum school leaving
age and then, a few years later, realised that they really needed some
qualifications.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The USSR paid good students to go to college and to get higher degrees. I was also stunned at the level of detail and expertise in any field. I met people that went to college on a scholarship for film projection. In their curriculum was two years of EE and film direction, production and of course the classics. If you earned a degree in dance or astrophysics, you were still well educated in music, literature, art and all aspects of your field.. Their Md's were required to earn PhD's after five years. I meet people living on $70 a month, still dressing very fashionable, highly educated and one would not know how little they lived on until you were invited into their homes. One on one I found them to been very honest and interesting. Not real big on following rules though.

On Tue, 12 May 2020 14:13:05 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Not real big on following rules though.

True. I've always liked a story a British control-line flyer, Dave,
told: Dave flew team-race, but (of course) knew all the Russian speed
fliers as well: all these guys built their own engines. One of them was a
QA inspector on the Mig fighter factory and in a slow part of some day,
took a closer look at a Mig main spar and realised that it was exactly
what they all needed to make con-rods. By the end of the day the spar had
been condemned as unfit for use, chopped into 300mm lengths and, that
evening, posted to all his engine-building mates.

Anyway, as the USSR broke up, he and I ended up importing the Kalmykov
Cyclon 06 motors to the UK - the TOP-2 were easily the best F1j engines
I've ever had my hands on. Details here for those that like small
engines:
https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/.../cyclon06.html

and a very good-looking engine too, just not as pretty as this:
https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/.../shuriken.html

It was the first really powerful 1cc engine to be made.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org