If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Peter Duniho wrote:
"Bill J" wrote in message ... You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical. Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course). The point is that instructing is not considered by the feds to be a commercial activity, notwithstanding the fact that a commercial certificate is a prerequisite for the CFI. Only a third class medical is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary instruction). If the 'student' is a certificated pilot and can act as PIC, then no medical is required for the CFI at all. Ken Balch CP-ASMEL-IA, CFI, AGI, IGI, R-AB |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed. Peter Duniho wrote: "Bill J" wrote in message ... You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical. Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course). Pete |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to the FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed. Peter Duniho wrote: "Bill J" wrote in message ... You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical. Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course). Pete |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Dave S wrote in message nk.net...
Had you been aware of the limitations beforehand.. you could have addressed in several possible ways. 1) nondisclosure (lying by omission).. which has a whole nother set of consequences, if discovered.. but very well may have been the "reasonable and prudent" course of action by a body of your peers.. A. Keep in mind that unless the FAA/Civil Aeromedical branch decides to press criminal charges (unlikely), you will be going through the administrative law system, which does not operate the way you learned courts worked in civics class. You will be judged by an administrative law judge, and will enjoy no presumption of innocence. If you end up in this mess you may well find future certification impossible even if they change the rules overall, or be fined generously. B. OTOH I've read that they've actually been taking a more liberal approach to "catch-up" reporting of old issues that pilots had hidden on previous applications, the thinking being that it's better to encourage people to come clean and handle things on the up-and-up. No guarantee you'll get a medical but at least they probably won't press charges. However, it would be wise to look at this carefully before banking on it as an "out." -cwk. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Ken Balch" wrote in message
... [...] Only a third class medical is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary instruction). As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of primary training) a commercial certificate is required. If you believe otherwise, please feel free to quote the portion of the FARs that allows a pilot to be paid to act as PIC as an instructor without having a commercial certificate. If the 'student' is a certificated pilot and can act as PIC, then no medical is required for the CFI at all. Yes, this much is true, I think we all understand it, and there's no need to belabor that point. Pete |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
[...] Only a third class medical
is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary instruction). As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of primary training) a commercial certificate is required. If you believe otherwise, please feel free to quote the portion of the FARs that allows a pilot to be paid to act as PIC as an instructor without having a commercial certificate. It is correct that a commercial certificate (or ATP) is required to hold a CFI certificate. But this does not imply a requirement for a second class medical. The FAA has stated that the CFI is paid to provide instruction, not act as PIC. From the Part 61 FAQ (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/pt61FAQ.doc): To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating, § 61.183(c) requires a person to hold a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating... There is no provision for a person to obtain or hold a flight instructor certificate without a commercial or ATP certificate. But "holding" a commercial or ATP certificate does not demand a valid medical. Only the performance of given privileges require a specific class medical per § 61.23(a) (1), (2), or (3). QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive compensation for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a third class medical, or maybe does not even hold a current medical certificate at all? ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a flight instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give flight and ground training and be compensated for it. In the preamble of the parts 61 and 141 final rule that was published in the Federal Register on April 4, 1997 (62 FR 16220-16367) when the FAA revised the entire Part 61, the FAA stated the following in the Federal Register on page 16242 in response to whether a medical certificate is required for a flight instructor to give ground and flight training: " With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs." |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
"Barry" wrote in message ...
[...] The FAA has stated that the CFI is paid to provide instruction, not act as PIC. From the Part 61 FAQ (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/pt61FAQ.doc): If you say so. The CFI's presence in the plane is not "incidental" to the flight, and they certainly *are* being paid to act as PIC, as well as teach. Furthermore, the "privileges of the flight instructor certificate" do not call out getting paid to act as PIC. Only the privileges of the commercial (and ATC, of course) do. But, of course, as we all know, if the Part 61 FAQ says it, it must be true. In any case, it wouldn't be the first time the FAA came up with an absurd interpretation of their own rules. At least this time it's in the pilot's favor. Pete |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
But, of course, as we all know, if the Part 61 FAQ says it, it must be true.
In any case, it wouldn't be the first time the FAA came up with an absurd interpretation of their own rules. At least this time it's in the pilot's favor. Like you, I disagree with some of what's in the FAQ. The big difference here is that the explanation of the CFI medical issue was included in the Federal Register when the new Part 61 was published. So it's not the usual after-the-fact interpretation. Certainly they could have made this clearer by restating it in the actual regulation. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Barry" wrote in message ...
[...] Only a third class medical is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary instruction). As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of primary training) a commercial certificate is required. Of course, the FAA says CFIs are paid to teach and not paid to fly. That is why we are only required to hold a class 3 medical. If the student is rated in the airplane we are not required to hold any medical certificate. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Sport Pilot cuts off special issuance at the knees | Juan~--~Jimenez | Home Built | 40 | August 10th 04 01:19 PM |
Question Medical | Captain Wubba | Piloting | 5 | June 11th 04 05:12 AM |
RF interference issue again (esp. for E Drucker and Jim Weir and other RF wizards) | Snowbird | Home Built | 78 | December 3rd 03 09:10 PM |
RF interference issue again (esp. for E Drucker and Jim Weir and other RF wizards) | Snowbird | Owning | 77 | December 3rd 03 09:10 PM |
Question on medical and kidney stones | nospam | Piloting | 13 | November 8th 03 07:10 AM |