A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Supplemental oxygen



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 22nd 19, 04:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Supplemental oxygen

The other day a couple of pilots were treating 123.3 as their private chat line which I was forced to listen to so I could hear my friend's hourly position reports. One of the things one kept (repeatedly) talking about was having to descend to 12,500 to "reset" the 30 minute clock. This is entirely wrong: there is no "resetting" of the clock; it is a ONCE A FLIGHT exception, no doubt intended to give pilots w/o supplemental oxygen leeway in crossing high-altitude mountain passes. The governing FAR is 91.211:

§ 91.211 Supplemental oxygen.
(a)General. No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry -

(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen for that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes duration;

(2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those altitudes; and

(3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental oxygen.
  #2  
Old July 22nd 19, 05:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default Supplemental oxygen

Great point.....
While never having to deal with this issue....my feeling (and FAA/NTSB if an incident or accident....), bouncing low for a short bit does NOT agree with Mother Nature.
While "maybe legal" (emphasis on MAYBE), Mother Nature is almost as a hard a judge as gravity (yeah....I know....no such thing as gravity.....the earth sucks.....you get the point....).

Sounds like this pilot may become a statistic....sucks for everyone else as well as family and friends.....:-(
  #3  
Old July 23rd 19, 01:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default Supplemental oxygen

I would have jumped on the party line and told them anonymously 1) please go to 123.5 and 2) BTW your thoughts on resetting the oxygen clock defies all medical knowledge and you are seriously risking hypoxia.
  #4  
Old July 23rd 19, 04:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Supplemental oxygen

This was very helpful! I have had oxygen system crap out twice while flying over the Great Basin and bounced between 12,499 and 13,999 for the rest of the flight to get home. Good to know going below 12.5k doesn’t “reset” the 30 min timer.

Cheers!
Bruno - B4
  #5  
Old July 23rd 19, 04:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 962
Default Supplemental oxygen

The smart guys are on O2 at 10,000 during the day and 5,000 at night. Most humans are measurably impaired at 12,500.

T8
  #6  
Old July 23rd 19, 05:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
gkemp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Supplemental oxygen

On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:57:52 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
The smart guys are on O2 at 10,000 during the day and 5,000 at night. Most humans are measurably impaired at 12,500.

T8


The Air Force have done tests that show flight decision making can be negatively affected without supplemental Oxygen above 6000 feet. I always put mine on when I got into the cockpit when releasing above 6000 feet.

gkemp
  #7  
Old July 23rd 19, 05:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 317
Default Supplemental oxygen

O2 systems fail. Probably, the best thing you could do, would be go thru a altitude chamber course. Everyones symptoms are different and it is insidious while its happening. knowing your symptoms and when it(hypoxia) is happening to you, can be a life saver! I went threw a course at ASU a few years back. Recently while flying a friends glider in Moriarty, I noticed my symptoms gradually appearing (tingling o, the back of the neck and headache). This lead me to check the EDS system and realize it was not fuctioning properly. I was able to reset it and get it working so didnt abort but had I not recognized the problem------

CH
  #8  
Old July 23rd 19, 06:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John McCullagh[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Supplemental oxygen

At 15:57 23 July 2019, Tango Eight wrote:
The smart guys are on O2 at 10,000 during the day and 5,000 at night.
Most humans are measurably impaired at 12,500.

T8

Much depends on your age, fitness, smoking habits, medication such as
beta-blockers, length of flight and the altitude at which you normally
live. At 10,000ft, you need 30% oxygen to function as well as normal if you
live at sea-level. Since air is 21% oxygen: that is a 50% increase. Even
10,000 ft is too high without supplemental oxygen for many middle-aged
pilots who should be using a pulsed-demand supply soon after take-off for
high flights. The law is set in much the same way as blood/alcohol levels.
If you stay within legal limits, it does not mean that you are flying as
safely as you could. For example: visual sensitivity at night is decreased
by 10 percent at 5,000 ft and by 30 percent at 10,000 ft. Even in the day
at 10,000 ft there are reductions in memory capacity, patience, focus,
endurance etc. Jean-Marie Clement's book has 39 pages on the subject!

  #9  
Old July 23rd 19, 06:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Koerner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 430
Default Supplemental oxygen

On a related note, if you run out of oxygen, you can get yourself some extra altitude margin in a pinch by pressure breathing. I rather discovered this while swimming laps. I could do better with a controlled pressurized exhale. I figured the same idea might transfer to soaring. I did some reading that supported the premise and then did some experimenting at altitude. It definitely works (legalities aside). Having 45 years of western soaring under my belt, I have a better than average sense for my own personal oxygen requirements. My tentative conclusion is that, for me, pressure breathing is worth around three thousand feet. Certainly I'm not recommending pressure breathing in lieu of supplemental oxygen, but it might be a useful thing to know about just in case.
  #10  
Old July 23rd 19, 06:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default Supplemental oxygen

Agreed.....what is the cost of an O2 refill vs. a bad outcome?!?!??

Poor physical health, smoking (my bad....don't harp....I get enough already....), lack of sleep, different start point (coastal pilot suddenly flying at Denver or similar....) etc.
In general, I see no real downside to excess O2 other than sorta hyperventilating.....not great, but the opposite is way worse.
When you go O2 low, first thing to go is higher thinking.....exactly what you need then.....

No....have not done an altitude chamber....
No....have not done much flying above 10K'ASL.....
Yes, did a gold climb with no external O2 to about 13.5K' on the eastern seaboard.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oudie Supplemental Power Pack Roy B. Soaring 24 September 30th 17 06:46 PM
Oxygen Jim[_18_] Soaring 5 September 28th 11 11:59 PM
News flash: pilots are "allowed" to use supplemental oxygen VARR Soaring 8 August 17th 08 04:54 PM
SZD-55 and oxygen David Pye[_2_] Soaring 0 February 27th 07 09:04 AM
Supplemental O2 and children Peter R. Piloting 23 April 18th 06 01:47 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.