Sacrificial layer for gear-up protection.

I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

At 21:49 16 May 2015, Don Johnstone wrote:

Good training is the key, but as is oft said, there are two types o
pilots, those that have and those that are going to.

..and the lucky ones who go off to the great soaring valhalla before they
do.

Appropo the next post have you ever seen the results of landing wheels up
on a nice rough concrete/aspahalt runway?

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:15:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

I've seen someone seriously injured when a pilot was distracted by a radio call on short final (Glider AB, check your gear). The gear was in fact up, but the pilot momentarily lost control of the glider trying to lower it and hit a spectator, seriously injuring that innocent bystander. It would've been far preferable to land gear up. I also know also of a pilot who was distracted on short final by an erroneous call from the ground. In fact, his gear was down and he dealt with it just fine, but it could easily have been a bad outcome.

Anyway, in several thousand glider takeoffs and landings, I've managed to land gear up twice. In both cases, I was extremely current, well-trained, and considered by my peers to be a good pilot. In one of those, I had a working gear warning which I managed to ignore until after the glider settled ("oh, that's what that annoying noise was"). Point being, those who sit on their pedestal and claim that only under-trained or careless pilots land gear up might want to to reconsider their stance. I know of several other very good pilots who have suffered the same fate.

Long-winded intro to the real question which is... yeah, if a strip of bonded sacraficial material works, great. I would point out that one of the real problems is that, with any sort of hard hit, the damage isn't just to the gelcoat. You have to inspect whatever bulkheads and seams are are bonded at the belly. I know of a relatively minor gear up that resulted in a fairly tricky repair on an LS glider.

P3

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:35:11 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:15:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

I've seen someone seriously injured when a pilot was distracted by a radio call on short final (Glider AB, check your gear). The gear was in fact up, but the pilot momentarily lost control of the glider trying to lower it and hit a spectator, seriously injuring that innocent bystander. It would've been far preferable to land gear up. I also know also of a pilot who was distracted on short final by an erroneous call from the ground. In fact, his gear was down and he dealt with it just fine, but it could easily have been a bad outcome.

Anyway, in several thousand glider takeoffs and landings, I've managed to land gear up twice. In both cases, I was extremely current, well-trained, and considered by my peers to be a good pilot. In one of those, I had a working gear warning which I managed to ignore until after the glider settled ("oh, that's what that annoying noise was"). Point being, those who sit on their pedestal and claim that only under-trained or careless pilots land gear up might want to to reconsider their stance. I know of several other very good pilots who have suffered the same fate.

Long-winded intro to the real question which is... yeah, if a strip of bonded sacraficial material works, great. I would point out that one of the real problems is that, with any sort of hard hit, the damage isn't just to the gelcoat. You have to inspect whatever bulkheads and seams are are bonded at the belly. I know of a relatively minor gear up that resulted in a fairly tricky repair on an LS glider.

P3

I've always presumed that real aviators can fly their aircraft and listen to the radio at the same time. If a "check gear" call rattles a pilot so that he loses control of the glider, there's a problem afoot much more serious than radio procedures.

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 11:17:29 AM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:35:11 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:15:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

I've seen someone seriously injured when a pilot was distracted by a radio call on short final (Glider AB, check your gear). The gear was in fact up, but the pilot momentarily lost control of the glider trying to lower it and hit a spectator, seriously injuring that innocent bystander. It would've been far preferable to land gear up. I also know also of a pilot who was distracted on short final by an erroneous call from the ground. In fact, his gear was down and he dealt with it just fine, but it could easily have been a bad outcome.

Anyway, in several thousand glider takeoffs and landings, I've managed to land gear up twice. In both cases, I was extremely current, well-trained, and considered by my peers to be a good pilot. In one of those, I had a working gear warning which I managed to ignore until after the glider settled ("oh, that's what that annoying noise was"). Point being, those who sit on their pedestal and claim that only under-trained or careless pilots land gear up might want to to reconsider their stance. I know of several other very good pilots who have suffered the same fate.

Long-winded intro to the real question which is... yeah, if a strip of bonded sacraficial material works, great. I would point out that one of the real problems is that, with any sort of hard hit, the damage isn't just to the gelcoat. You have to inspect whatever bulkheads and seams are are bonded at the belly. I know of a relatively minor gear up that resulted in a fairly tricky repair on an LS glider.

P3

I've always presumed that real aviators can fly their aircraft and listen to the radio at the same time. If a "check gear" call rattles a pilot so that he loses control of the glider, there's a problem afoot much more serious than radio procedures.

My LX 8080 offers me two gear rpompts: one off tow to 'check gear', and again when agl alt gets low, thus working eve3n in the higher stress of an outlanding.

Very nice to have, and redundant to my buzzer.

What's the big deal ?

Two words: Cost and down time. (Well... Three words).

On 5/16/2015 10:15 PM, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

--
Dan Marotta

I too find it hard to believe that a radio call could so rattle a pilot that he loses control. In flying gliders on three continents, I have always maintained radio contact with both the field and traffic as essential to safety.

Most pilots at my local club also call out that their gear is deployed on their downwind leg. I was never trained to do that, so frequently get asked to check my gear. I have screwed up a few landings over the years, but so far have avoided a gear-up.

Mike

So it's only a material danger, that's my point.

People get so worked up over it, like it's a safety issue. So much so that they create real safety issues, where people get hurt reacting to radio calls on landing, or last minute lowering the gear.

Todd

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 11:38:17 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
What's the big deal ?
Two words:* Cost and down time.* (Well...* Three words).




On 5/16/2015 10:15 PM,
wrote:



I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith
3S

--

Dan Marotta

On 5/17/2015 9:17 AM, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:35:11 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 12:15:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I have always wondered, why do people get so worked up about gear up
landings in a glider ?

Has anyone ever been killed or seriously injured because of a gear up
landing in a glider ?

I have seen several gear up landings and none of them caused any injury
and only minor damage.

What's the big deal ?

Todd Smith 3S

I've seen someone seriously injured when a pilot was distracted by a
radio call on short final (Glider AB, check your gear). The gear was in
fact up, but the pilot momentarily lost control of the glider trying to
lower it and hit a spectator, seriously injuring that innocent bystander.
It would've been far preferable to land gear up. I also know also of a
pilot who was distracted on short final by an erroneous call from the
ground. In fact, his gear was down and he dealt with it just fine, but
it could easily have been a bad outcome.

Anyway, in several thousand glider takeoffs and landings, I've managed
to land gear up twice. In both cases, I was extremely current,
well-trained, and considered by my peers to be a good pilot. In one of
those, I had a working gear warning which I managed to ignore until after
the glider settled ("oh, that's what that annoying noise was"). Point
being, those who sit on their pedestal and claim that only under-trained
or careless pilots land gear up might want to to reconsider their stance.
I know of several other very good pilots who have suffered the same
fate.

Long-winded intro to the real question which is... yeah, if a strip of
bonded sacraficial material works, great. I would point out that one of
the real problems is that, with any sort of hard hit, the damage isn't
just to the gelcoat. You have to inspect whatever bulkheads and seams
are are bonded at the belly. I know of a relatively minor gear up that
resulted in a fairly tricky repair on an LS glider.

P3

I've always presumed that real aviators can fly their aircraft and listen
to the radio at the same time. If a "check gear" call rattles a pilot so
that he loses control of the glider, there's a problem afoot much more
serious than radio procedures.


Humanity...it's a wonder we've ever survived to create technology and
sailplanes! And considering only the male subset of humankind, it's a wonder
any manage to survive into/measurably-along the journey of adulthood, when you
consider how few of us lack at least one story along the lines of: "Boy, did I
ever get lucky when I did THAT (stupid, ignorant, inattentive,
life-endangering) thing!!!" I don't consider myself particularly
adrenaline-loving, or abbie-normally stupid/ignorant/inattentive, but I've my
own collection of survival stories...fortunately for my embarrassment
quotient, few of them public or related to soaring. If it happens, it must be
possible...

That noted, "What Bill D. said."

Honestly, what percentage of PIC readers haven't yet heard: Aviate! Navigate!
Communicate!

What percentage didn't encounter the aphorism until after their first incident?

What percentage have yet to take it to heart?

My money's on #3 being the largest number.

As for UHMWPE as a belt-n-suspenders adjunct against the day you begin sliding
gear-up on a reasonably smooth surface of any sort, save for the perpetual
minor in-flight aerodynamic drag increase, no obvious downsides spring to my mind.

YMMV,
Bob - no gear-up landings yet; 2 rolling-on-gear-collapses - W.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 6:23:44 PM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:29:47 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:36:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 2:59:26 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Lets say you are deploying a retractible gear glider in a club with members who some might suspect of landing the thing gear-up someday.

I've seen this eventuality addressed on an L-23 by putting a ziptie around the gear lowering handle.

all of the club retracts I've flown have had the handle disabled, either with a ziptie or with safety wire

Disabling an aircraft control sounds not only insane but likely also illegal.

Mike

Slightly off topic but has entertainment value: Go tell that that to the mechanic who services the local CAP L23 and routinely safety-wires the canopy emergency jettison lever with SS-wire rather than thin copper wire which one could break .....