WAAS and Garmin 430/530

"Dave Butler" wrote in message ...


Jeff wrote:
Thats alot more then I was quoted from my avionics shop, they said 500$
and they updated the software.


According to Garmin updating my dual GNS 430s for WAAS will cost $1500
per unit. They have to be removed and shipped to the factory.


Correct. Check this press release from Garmin:
http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/060403.html

The summary:

TAWS - $500
WAAS - $1500

ouch....so 1500$ for the upgrade and xxx to have an avionics person
remove it and send it in.
WAAS isnt that important to me, the terrain data base would be nice to
have tho.


Dave Butler wrote:



Jeff wrote:

Thats alot more then I was quoted from my avionics shop, they said
500$ and they updated the software.

ArtP wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:18:38 -0700, Jeff wrote:



Right now I am considering it for my new plane, WAAS is not
something I need, but from what I understand from talking to my
avionics shop, all that is needed when the WAAS updates come out is
for you to take it to the shop and they will update the software in
it. No big deal, only takes a few minutes.
I dont see sales going down on the 430 or 530, they are really
good systems especially now since you can get the terrain data base
for it.



According to Garmin updating my dual GNS 430s for WAAS will cost $1500
per unit. They have to be removed and shipped to the factory.



Correct. Check this press release from Garmin:
http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/060403.html

Dave

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...


Jeff wrote:
Thats alot more then I was quoted from my avionics shop, they said
500$
and they updated the software.


According to Garmin updating my dual GNS 430s for WAAS will cost $1500
per unit. They have to be removed and shipped to the factory.


Correct. Check this press release from Garmin:
http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/060403.html

The summary:

TAWS - $500
WAAS - $1500


No. "Terrain" (not TAWS) is $500
TAWS is $6250

Mike
MU-2

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe). They were designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the 430/530 would be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide the 1 Hz refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year stated the upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon Garmin's typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04 before they can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't find any "issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV approaches published, I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit until the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any inevitable problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably go for the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT and future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at OSH was their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the high dollar G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment. Kind of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with an interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business model, but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2

I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took a hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to the auto
sector.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe). They were
designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the 430/530 would be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide the 1 Hz
refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year stated the
upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon Garmin's typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04 before they
can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't find any
"issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV approaches published, I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit until the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any inevitable problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably go for the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT and future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at OSH was their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the high dollar
G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment. Kind of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with an interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
news
I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to the
auto
sector.
[snip]
Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Does anyone know who did get the contract?

Actually what you are referring to is Chrysler and Garmin did not lose the
business.. The system bought by Chrysler from Alpine was at a higher price
(~$1600) point than the one being developed by Garmin for Chrysler. The
stock was ready to take a hit, having run from $20 to $50 with no real
pullbacks. Automotive is indeed going to be the largest market but the
margins are going to be the lowest.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
news
I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to the
auto
sector.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe). They were
designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the 430/530 would
be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide the 1 Hz
refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year stated the
upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon Garmin's typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04 before they
can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't find any
"issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV approaches published,
I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit until the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any inevitable
problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably go for the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT and future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at OSH was
their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the high dollar
G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment. Kind of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with an
interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2

Alpine got some Chrysler business but it was for a different product that
what Garmin was working on.

Mike
MU-2


"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
news
I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to the
auto
sector.
[snip]
Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business
model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Does anyone know who did get the contract?

I don't think so, but I will obviously have to do some research. Alpine been
designing Mopar products for a while. The Mopar RB1 (an awesome GPS head
unit that is Sirius Sat ready...) was shipping back in May, and it is an
Alpine based product...

I own Garmin products, but I also know they are vicious in protecting their
pricing and controlling distribution (which is why I am still suspect of
their UPSAT purchase.) You are correct, that autos represent the biggest
market and lowest margins, but the most successful technologies are the ones
that can generate high volume sales (witness Wi-Fi or the old VHS over
Beta...) GPS did not become ubiquitous until "cheap" solutions came to
market. Garmin also incorporated in the Cayman's as a tax haven. Perfectly
legal, but considering the bulk of their operations are in the US, a tad on
the sleazy side for my taste. Aerospace is a great market for Garmin,
because it is niche. The 35 "mouse" was way overpriced for many years until
others came to the market, they really milked that one...

Don't get me wrong, the 430/530 are still amazing for what they do. I am
just concerned that they overpromised continued support of these products.
When making my UPSAT vs Garmin decision a few years back, my discussions
with Garmin engineers "suggested" Garmin had a software solution for a WAAS
upgrade. Now we know it is a major hardware upgrade, and really don't know
when it will be ready (or if it will ever pass the TSO...) I know from
discussing from individuals working in engineering that most of their
resources and talent are pushing the G1000. Upgrading the 430/530 may be on
the back burner for a while since they have bet their aerospace future on
the G1000 (and spending a lot of coin to get it out the door.)



"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...
Actually what you are referring to is Chrysler and Garmin did not lose the
business.. The system bought by Chrysler from Alpine was at a higher
price
(~$1600) point than the one being developed by Garmin for Chrysler. The
stock was ready to take a hit, having run from $20 to $50 with no real
pullbacks. Automotive is indeed going to be the largest market but the
margins are going to be the lowest.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
news
I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to the
auto
sector.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe). They were
designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the 430/530
would
be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide the 1 Hz
refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year stated the
upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon Garmin's typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04 before
they
can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't find any
"issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV approaches
published,
I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit until the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any inevitable
problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably go for
the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT and
future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at OSH was
their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the high dollar
G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment. Kind of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with an
interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business
model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
I own Garmin products, but I also know they are vicious in protecting
their
pricing and controlling distribution (which is why I am still suspect of
their UPSAT purchase.) You are correct, that autos represent the biggest
market and lowest margins, but the most successful technologies are the
ones
that can generate high volume sales (witness Wi-Fi or the old VHS over
Beta...) GPS did not become ubiquitous until "cheap" solutions came to
market. Garmin also incorporated in the Cayman's as a tax haven. Perfectly
legal, but considering the bulk of their operations are in the US, a tad
on
the sleazy side for my taste. Aerospace is a great market for Garmin,
because it is niche. The 35 "mouse" was way overpriced for many years
until
others came to the market, they really milked that one...


Garmin is more of a Taiwanese company than a US one.


Don't get me wrong, the 430/530 are still amazing for what they do. I am
just concerned that they overpromised continued support of these products.
When making my UPSAT vs Garmin decision a few years back, my discussions
with Garmin engineers "suggested" Garmin had a software solution for a
WAAS
upgrade. Now we know it is a major hardware upgrade, and really don't know
when it will be ready (or if it will ever pass the TSO...) I know from
discussing from individuals working in engineering that most of their
resources and talent are pushing the G1000. Upgrading the 430/530 may be
on
the back burner for a while since they have bet their aerospace future on
the G1000 (and spending a lot of coin to get it out the door.)


When Garmin "suggested" that they would have a software WAAS upgrade path
for the 430/530, the TSO was not availible. When the FAA issued the TSO, it
required 5 updates per second and that was beyond what the processor on the
430/530 could do. Their was no way to see this coming and Garmin certainly
hasn't had any problem integrating WAAS into their non-IFR-certified
products. You seem to be inferring that not having WAAS for the 430/530
today is an issue and that Garmin should pull out all the stops to get WAAS
into the 430/530. I disagree. There is no functional advantage to having a
146 box today.

Mike
MU-2



"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...
Actually what you are referring to is Chrysler and Garmin did not lose
the
business.. The system bought by Chrysler from Alpine was at a higher
price
(~$1600) point than the one being developed by Garmin for Chrysler. The
stock was ready to take a hit, having run from $20 to $50 with no real
pullbacks. Automotive is indeed going to be the largest market but the
margins are going to be the lowest.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
news
I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's stock took
a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market compared to
the
auto
sector.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in
message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe). They were
designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the 430/530
would
be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide the 1 Hz
refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year stated the
upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon Garmin's
typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04 before
they
can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't find any
"issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV approaches
published,
I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit until
the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any inevitable
problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably go for
the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT and
future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at OSH was
their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the high dollar
G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment. Kind of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with an
interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of their high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their business
model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2