Replacing fuel cut-off valve with non-a/c part???

RST Engineering wrote:

If the valve the person is suggesting that they use is available at the
local hardware store, it is far superior to ANYTHING that was available in
the middle of the last century.

Having done a fair amount of plumbing repairs in the last fifteen years, I beg
to differ. Pay *close* attention to the country of manufacture. If the new valve
is made in the US, Canada, or just about any European country, Jim's statement
is absolutely correct. One made in Indonesia *may* be satisfactory. Having seen
the failure rate on the Chinese shutoff valves which I've put in, there's no way
I would install something made in Asia in my fuel system.

And make absolutely sure that it has the warning label to the effect that it
contains substances that are "known to the State of California" to cause birth
defects. That substance is lead, which is required in the manufacture of quality
brass valves.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

Kyle Boatright wrote:

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

You really don't understand, do you John? The process to approve this
part is NOT a simple 337. A 337 means you have approved data to make the
modification.

Oh, no, sir. You submit a request to the local FSDO inspector, who
transfers it to regional engineering, who passes it on to Oklahoma City,
who bucks it up the ladder to Washington DC for a policy decision, while
you wait, and wait, and wait for an answer.

This is a frikkin' low horsepower single engine airplane out of the 1930s.
If the valve the person is suggesting that they use is available at the
local hardware store, it is far superior to ANYTHING that was available in
the middle of the last century.

Put the sumbitch on and keep your mouth shut.

Jim



You're a bad person.

But I totally agree. ;-)

The only way you get busted is if: A) The airplane crashes because the valve
failed and B) You open your mouth.

Actually, a crash for any reason is bad if it results in the uncovering
of the unapproved part.


Matt

"JDupre5762" wrote in message
...
I believe a ball type valve from the local hardware store
would do the trick,

Quite possibly true but not a legal repair.

A look at the FAR indicates replacing the valve is not a major thing
and a 337 is not require; however, the proposed valve is not certified
for use in an a/c.

Look deeper, deeper, deeper into those FARs. Per the FARs


Per WHICH FAR? I don't know how many Taylorcrafts have automotive stuff
in them. Hell, they were built that way. They have copper plumbing and
SAE 45 degree fittings and valves and on and on. The A&P who owned a
Taylorcraft used to say, when you were changing out a part, "equal to or
better." Now THAT's in the FAR's or somewhere in advisory circulars. I've
seen it.

I know a Cub with a fuel shutoff valve from Home Depot. It's been there,
installed by an A&P, for years. And you know what? It still works.


you cannot replace a
certificated part with common hardware store parts unless those parts meet
whatever standard applies. If you were to replace the fuel shut off valve
with
something not certificated for that aircraft you would need a Form 337 to
gain
approval.

A 337 doesn't get you approved; that's for major repairs and alterations.
You would need to go running to the FSDO for approval first.

I plan on talking with the local FSDO, but until then, can someone
provide any insight into what I'm going to have to do? Thanks, Mike

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

You really don't understand, do you John? The process to approve this
part is NOT a simple 337. A 337 means you have approved data to make the
modification.

Oh, no, sir. You submit a request to the local FSDO inspector, who
transfers it to regional engineering, who passes it on to Oklahoma City,
who bucks it up the ladder to Washington DC for a policy decision, while
you wait, and wait, and wait for an answer.

This is a frikkin' low horsepower single engine airplane out of the
1930s. If the valve the person is suggesting that they use is available
at the local hardware store, it is far superior to ANYTHING that was
available in the middle of the last century.

Put the sumbitch on and keep your mouth shut.

Jim



You're a bad person.

But I totally agree. ;-)

The only way you get busted is if: A) The airplane crashes because the
valve failed and B) You open your mouth.

Actually, a crash for any reason is bad if it results in the uncovering of
the unapproved part.

Matt

Especially for the widow, and what little if anything will be left of the
estate once a lawyer finds out about the automotive valve.

It always amazes me how people insist on taking a chance on having a lawyer
walk away with your life's savings and assets just because they're too damn
lazy to track down the right part...

Juan

Which he already did, thanks to a simple thing called groups search on
google...

Sheesh.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Buy what you consider an adequate replacement. Do your homework and get
something that will stand up to gasoline for dozens of years.

Plug the input and output ports. Put the part into a mixing bowl with
sand and dirt. Let the mixer run for a few hours. You now have a part
that has been on the airplane for years Nobody is going to question it
unless you spill the beans.

Sheesh...

Jim


"Michael Horowitz" wrote in message
...
sigh
Yeah, and to compound the problem, being in the DC area, the local
FSDO is sure to dot all the 'i's.

I'm open to suggestion. - Mike

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

You really don't understand, do you John? The process to approve this
part is NOT a simple 337. A 337 means you have approved data to make
the
modification.

Oh, no, sir. You submit a request to the local FSDO inspector, who
transfers it to regional engineering, who passes it on to Oklahoma
City,
who bucks it up the ladder to Washington DC for a policy decision,
while
you wait, and wait, and wait for an answer.

This is a frikkin' low horsepower single engine airplane out of the
1930s. If the valve the person is suggesting that they use is available
at the local hardware store, it is far superior to ANYTHING that was
available in the middle of the last century.

Put the sumbitch on and keep your mouth shut.

Jim



You're a bad person.

But I totally agree. ;-)

The only way you get busted is if: A) The airplane crashes because the
valve failed and B) You open your mouth.

Actually, a crash for any reason is bad if it results in the uncovering
of
the unapproved part.

Matt

Especially for the widow, and what little if anything will be left of the
estate once a lawyer finds out about the automotive valve.

It always amazes me how people insist on taking a chance on having a
lawyer
walk away with your life's savings and assets just because they're too
damn
lazy to track down the right part...

Juan

Are you totally clueless? Have you never heard of proximate cause as a
condition precedent to getting into court on a personal injury or wrongful
death lawsuit?

Now listen heah, Mr. Kearns, you anal retentive. Go to Home Depot and buy
one of those brass ball valves with teflon ball. Hell, buy several of
them. Some of them are called "bolla valvola" giving you an idea where
they are made.* Soak them in mogas or 100LL or both for a decade and see
if one of the damn things fails. I get angry at Jim Weir every once in a
while, but you know the guy has practical good sense that others are often
devoid of.
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:21:02 -0500, " jls"
wrote:


"JDupre5762" wrote in message
...
I believe a ball type valve from the local hardware store
would do the trick,
Damn right, Dupres or Jim Weir or whoever said that. Stand and testify!



*BTW, I bought cylinders from Superior recently. The valves were made in
Italy and the pistons in Brazil. Didn't bother me a damn bit.

" jls" wrote in message
...

Are you totally clueless? Have you never heard of proximate cause as a
condition precedent to getting into court on a personal injury or wrongful
death lawsuit?

No, and apparently neither have the lawyers that have obtained multimillion
judgements against companies like Parker-Hannafin even when the NTSB
concluded their products were working just fine (Carnahan case), or when it
was absolutely crystal clear that the crash was a result of the captain
deciding to commit suicide (Silk Air flight MI-185).

What was it that you were saying about clueless? How are things in La-La
Land these days?

sheeshh....

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:29:43 -0500, " jls"
wrote:

[...]

If so, concerning the word "practical," I think
we have different dictionaries... In fact, I think the word you are
grasping for is "expedient."

No thanks for your defective Thesaurus, not a synonym for "practical."
*You* are the grasper here, and I doubt you have knowledge or experience in
the upkeep of old airplanes like Michael's. That's the reason why he
should consult with a *reasonable* A&P, not an anal one. I've known of
A&P's who didn't know the difference between a Taylorcraft and a Chris
Craft, and your strawman is duly noted.

What one does is seek out a reasonable A&P, thank goodness for the abundance
of competent A&P's in my neck of the woods. If you run up on an anal one,
shun him and go to one with practical sense who knows how to interpret the
FAR's reasonably enough and safely enough to keep the old airplanes flying.

I plan on talking with the local FSDO

Then you will never be able to do it. Never. Once they know you had
plans to do it, you lose plausible deniability.

Look, here's the way it is. All alterations to the fuel system are
major. You have no approved data. You have an unapproved part. It
would take an STC or field approval to make it happen, and you won't
get one. You're stuck with either your obsolete, leaky, marginally
safe - but legal - valve, or you make the alteration yourself, by dark
of night, and don't tell anyone. And make sure you have the kind of IA
who doesn't notice such things.

Michael