Winch Launch Fatality

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:45:02 +0000, Del C wrote:

Generally it is OK to make 180 or 360 degree turns in a modern gliders,
as long as you start at at least 300ft and keep the airspeed up to a
safe manoeuvring speed. The failure to do the latter seems to have been
the probably cause of this accident.

I'm really curious about the field layout: I've never flown a winch
launch from a flat land field where it wasn't possible to land ahead from
a low break or to fly an abbreviated circuit from a higher one, but then
again I've never flown from a site where the winch was positioned off the
end of the runway.

I believe there are fields in Germany and at least one in NZ with a
remotely positioned winch. I can imagine situations on that type of field
where landing ahead may not be a good option, so does Sandhill have this
type of field layout?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Andreas Maurer wrote:

Completely wrong for a winch launch.
In case of a rope-break, you are either able to land straight-on on
the airfield, or you have sufficient altitude(300 ft+) to fly a
*safe* pattern.

Or, at some places, when you are too high for a straight landing but too
low for a complete circuit, you do a safe 180 and make a safe downwind
landing.

The crucial point is a thorough departure briefing.

I will never understand why some people think that *two* 180 at low
altitude are safer than *one*. Where does this downwind landing taboo
originate?

We are speculating which is wrong.It could be a very experienced P2
reacting inapropiately and P1 not able to take over in time.The more
experienced "bloggs" the clever the traps they create for the
instructor.I think it unlikely that they made a basic land ahead/pattern
mistake, ,more likely failed to take over in time because P2 was nearly
right.Lets not insult the guys they paid a terrible price in the name of a
sport we all love.

At 12:20 22 June 2009, John Smith wrote:
Andreas Maurer wrote:

Completely wrong for a winch launch.
In case of a rope-break, you are either able to land straight-on on
the airfield, or you have sufficient altitude(300 ft+) to fly a
*safe* pattern.

Or, at some places, when you are too high for a straight landing but too

low for a complete circuit, you do a safe 180 and make a safe downwind
landing.

The crucial point is a thorough departure briefing.

"John Smith" wrote in message
. ..
Where does this downwind landing taboo originate?

What downwind landing taboo? Here in the US, the 180 degree "rope break"
downwind landing is part of the standard pre-solo curriculum.

Vaughn

We don't know exactly what happened, but there are 3 main causes of
winching accidents.
A wing down on the ground run, causing the glider to cartwheel.
Too steep, too soon, resulting in a stalled wing and the start of a spin.
Both of these happen VERY fast.
Not achieving and maintaining a safe airspeed after a launch failure,
resulting in a stall or spin.
Here in the UK the BGA has been addressing winching accidents, and put out
good advice. It is worth looking at.
Dave






At 13:00 22 June 2009, Jonathon May wrote:
We are speculating which is wrong.It could be a very experienced P2
reacting inapropiately and P1 not able to take over in time.The more
experienced "bloggs" the clever the traps they create for the
instructor.I think it unlikely that they made a basic land ahead/pattern
mistake, ,more likely failed to take over in time because P2 was nearly
right.Lets not insult the guys they paid a terrible price in the name of
a
sport we all love.

At 12:20 22 June 2009, John Smith wrote:
Andreas Maurer wrote:

Completely wrong for a winch launch.
In case of a rope-break, you are either able to land straight-on on
the airfield, or you have sufficient altitude(300 ft+) to fly a
*safe* pattern.

Or, at some places, when you are too high for a straight landing but
too

low for a complete circuit, you do a safe 180 and make a safe downwind
landing.

The crucial point is a thorough departure briefing.

On Jun 22, 6:15*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:45:02 +0000, Del C wrote:
Generally it is OK to make 180 or 360 degree turns in a modern gliders,
as long as you start at at least 300ft and keep the airspeed up to a
safe manoeuvring speed. The failure to do the latter seems to have been
the probably cause of this accident.

I'm really curious about the field layout: I've never flown a winch
launch from a flat land field where it wasn't possible to land ahead from
a low break or to fly an abbreviated circuit from a higher one, but then
again I've never flown from a site where the winch was positioned off the
end of the runway.

I believe there are fields in Germany and at least one in NZ with a
remotely positioned winch. I can imagine situations on that type of field
where landing ahead may not be a good option, so does Sandhill have this
type of field layout? *

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

Google Earth
42.4417017 / -84.0666186
for the layout. The winch run, ~3300ft, should be fairly clear.

On Jun 22, 5:45*am, Del C wrote:
Generally it is OK to make 180 or 360 degree turns in a modern gliders, as
long as you start at at least 300ft and keep the airspeed up to a safe
manoeuvring speed. The failure to do the latter seems to have been the
probably cause of this accident.

Also US glider pilots, mostly trained on aerotows, may not have properly
thought through the options available after a winch launch cable break.

Derek Copeland (UK gliding instructor)

At 10:48 22 June 2009, Scott wrote:

The club in question probably winch launches more than any other in
the US. I'm not aware on any current winch operation not training to
an acceptable standard. There was one several years ago selling
endorsements in about six launches. That operation is now out of
business in the aero tow world also.

On Jun 22, 7:43*am, "vaughn"
wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message

. ..

Where does this downwind landing taboo originate?

What downwind landing taboo? *Here in the US, the 180 degree "rope break"
downwind landing is part of the standard pre-solo curriculum.

Vaughn

Since many critical facts are still unknown, it's impossible to
comment on this particular crash except to offer our deepest sympathy
and condolences to all concerned - especially the pilot. One can only
imagine the burden he carries.

But, speaking generally about winch launch failures, if you are high
enough that landing straight ahead is impossible, then you will have
plenty of altitude for a closely linked pair of 180 turns which will
end with the gilder lined up with the runway for an into-the-wind
landing. The last 180 to final approach should never be below 200
feet AGL which is comparable to the 200' 180 turn to a downwind
landing taught aero tow students.

Even on short runways, the straight ahead option and the circle to
land option overlap by several hundred feet, depending on things like
spoiler effectiveness and wind speed, making the decision not
particularly critical. Nonetheless, a pilot is encouraged to estimate
a "critical altitude" above which a straight ahead landing would be
problematical before beginning the launch. This mental preparation
makes it easier to decide which way to go.

What IS critical is getting the nose down without the slightest delay.
Push the nose as far below the horizon as it was above it at the point
of failure then WAIT until you see a safe airspeed with an increasing
trend before deciding on which option to execute. The top priority is
always the same - FLY THE GLIDER!

If the decision is circle to land, just as with the aero tow 180 turn
at 200', the glider must be flown with precise airspeed and
coordination control. The intent is NOT to stop at the launch point -
just to make a safe landing anywhere on the airfield.

Managing a winch launch failure is neither difficult nor unsafe but it
does require some training and forethought. Launch failures have
been managed safely many millions of times just using basic glider
instrumentation. However, I think significantly fewer accidents would
have happened if angle of attack indicators were universally installed.

On Jun 22, 4:05*am, Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...



At 04:03 19 June 2009, Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
Who knows details about this?

http://www.mlive.com/news/annarborne...news-32/124507....

There is some more info here...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2515...wi-pilot-named

United States police today released the name of a New Zealand pilot
killed last Sunday when the glider in which he was a passenger crashed..

Timothy John Moxham, 29, was a pilot for an air ambulance, Midwest
Medflight.

Police said a delay in releasing details of his identity was because of
the difficulty in reaching his parents in New Zealand.

Mr Moxham died in a glider owned by the Sandhill Soaring Club and flown
by the club president when it crashed near Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Preliminary investigation indicated a winch cable used to help the
aircraft take flight may have failed on takeoff, police chief William
Cook of the nearby Unadilla Township told the Daily Press and Argus
newspaper. The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating.

The glider pilot, Orrin Burns Beckham, 63, of Ann Arbor, is in a serious

condition in a local hospital.

A colleague of the New Zealander, Medflight paramedic Andrew King said
Mr Moxham took his job to heart.

"Not only did Tim love flying and love being a pilot, but he loved being

a part of the (team) and getting people to the appropriate hospitals."

Mr King said Mr Moxham's desire to go gliding was recent. He said prior

to the trip, Moxham told him: "This is true flying. It's just you and
(nature)."

The New Zealander had been flying for more than 15 years, starting at
the age of 13 when his father taught him, and had logged more than 3000
hours of flight time, including flying offshore, corporate work and
flight instruction.

He also held certification to an FAA standards on airframe construction
and engine mechanics.

"People say we've lost a pilot, but he was so much more than that,"
said
another colleague, Medflight nurse Doug Berry. "He had such compassion
for the job and the people we transported. He cared about people.

"He touched the lives of hundreds of people," Mr Berry added, choking
back tears. "He was amazing."

- NZPA

--
Duncan

NTSB prelim is at * *
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...15X13631&key=1

Thanks Ron.

I see...
"
Witnesses reported that the glider was launched with a winch and during
the procedure the winch cable broke. The pilot executed a 180-degree
turn apparently in an attempt to return to the airport. However, near
the completion of the turn, the nose of the glider dropped and it
impacted the terrain.
"

How many times!!! - *don't* try to return to the field! *OK, I don't
know the altitude (AGL) nor what was ahead of the field, but hey, we all
know, this is generally regarded as a no-no.

--
Duncan

I suggest you take a look at the Private Pilot Glider Practical Test
Guide. 180 (really 270) turns to a downwind landing are SOP for
gliders after a aerotow rope break.

180 turns to a downwind landing are NOT SOP for a winch launch failure
since at 200 feet the glider is still very near the approach end of
the runway - a 180 turn will leave you with nowhere to land. Downwind
landings are not necessary or even advisable with winch launch
failures.