2015 18m Nationals

Could anyone explain why 2 years in a row we have 18 m Nationals on the west coast? This year Minden and next year Hobbs. As far as I remember Bermuda High was willing to host the 18m Nationals in 2015. This arrangement is totally unfair to East Coast pilots.

Does that mean 2016 and 2017 are going to be on the East coast?

I know some of the decision makers read this news group maybe someone is going to comment?

AK

Hobbs is on the west coast? He'll of a drive to the beach!

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 6:29:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Hobbs is on the west coast? He'll of a drive to the beach!

Okay western US, do you like it better now?

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:51:52 PM UTC-6, Andy K wrote:
Could anyone explain why 2 years in a row we have 18 m Nationals on the west coast? This year Minden and next year Hobbs. As far as I remember Bermuda High was willing to host the 18m Nationals in 2015. This arrangement is totally unfair to East Coast pilots.



Does that mean 2016 and 2017 are going to be on the East coast?



I know some of the decision makers read this news group maybe someone is going to comment?



AK

Andy,

I am surprised it took so long for someone to comment on the sad state of US contest planning.

Many years ago there was some basic rules that were suppose to be followed for contest planning.

1. Standard and 18M would be held together and 15M and Open would be together. 2. These two contest would be held on opposite sides of the country each year.

This logical approach would have allowed Standard pilots to flying in 15M, 15m to fly in 18M and 18M to fly in Open in alternate years when their class was not on their side of the country.

Unfortunately this plan has fallen by the wayside and we now have chaos. In 2015 we will have both Standard and 15M on the east coast and 18M will be in the west again for an other year. For 2016 we have both Standard and 15M at the same location rather than on opposite sides of the country like it is suppose to be.

Some of us have tried to encourage a better planning system for contests and also advocated for East/West nationals to end the confusion and encourage greater participation. Why should we have to drive 2500 miles to compete in our own class with a group of quality pilots? On average only one to two pilots cross the Mississippi to compete unless a contest is Mid-continent.

I have advocated for a Request For Proposals (FRP) date of November two years in advance (November 2014 for 2016 contests for example) for contest site requests and so that a logical planning pattern could happen. Any site interested could submit a proposal and all could be evaluated at one time so that contests are held at appropriate sites and allow all pilots to fly in their own class every other year at a minimum. This lead time would allow the selection committee to encourage sites to hold contest if they did not have enough request by November in the correct side of the country.

I have become very concerned about the overall quality of the US pilots going to the Worlds because we are selecting only from those that have the money and time to drive across the country each year or those that get lucky enough to have contests line up in their half of the country during selection periods.

I am glad to see the Pan-American contest being organized for next year, just wish it was being held during the summer months when more could attend.

Hopefully the contest selection committee and the team selection committee will:
1. Plan ahead and set a date for site proposals.
2. Work to ensure that contest are evenly distributed around the country.
3. Try to avoid placing nationals on the extreme coasts that discourages pilots from attending because of the distance.
4. Change the team selection rules to recognize East and West Championships as being worth 100 team selection points.
5. Merge to team selection list for Standard, 15M and 18M so that points count across classes.

TT

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 6:31:41 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:51:52 PM UTC-6, Andy K wrote:

Could anyone explain why 2 years in a row we have 18 m Nationals on the west coast? This year Minden and next year Hobbs. As far as I remember Bermuda High was willing to host the 18m Nationals in 2015. This arrangement is totally unfair to East Coast pilots.







Does that mean 2016 and 2017 are going to be on the East coast?







I know some of the decision makers read this news group maybe someone is going to comment?







AK



Andy,



I am surprised it took so long for someone to comment on the sad state of US contest planning.



Many years ago there was some basic rules that were suppose to be followed for contest planning.



1. Standard and 18M would be held together and 15M and Open would be together. 2. These two contest would be held on opposite sides of the country each year.



This logical approach would have allowed Standard pilots to flying in 15M, 15m to fly in 18M and 18M to fly in Open in alternate years when their class was not on their side of the country.



Unfortunately this plan has fallen by the wayside and we now have chaos. In 2015 we will have both Standard and 15M on the east coast and 18M will be in the west again for an other year. For 2016 we have both Standard and 15M at the same location rather than on opposite sides of the country like it is suppose to be.



Some of us have tried to encourage a better planning system for contests and also advocated for East/West nationals to end the confusion and encourage greater participation. Why should we have to drive 2500 miles to compete in our own class with a group of quality pilots? On average only one to two pilots cross the Mississippi to compete unless a contest is Mid-continent.



I have advocated for a Request For Proposals (FRP) date of November two years in advance (November 2014 for 2016 contests for example) for contest site requests and so that a logical planning pattern could happen. Any site interested could submit a proposal and all could be evaluated at one time so that contests are held at appropriate sites and allow all pilots to fly in their own class every other year at a minimum. This lead time would allow the selection committee to encourage sites to hold contest if they did not have enough request by November in the correct side of the country.



I have become very concerned about the overall quality of the US pilots going to the Worlds because we are selecting only from those that have the money and time to drive across the country each year or those that get lucky enough to have contests line up in their half of the country during selection periods.



I am glad to see the Pan-American contest being organized for next year, just wish it was being held during the summer months when more could attend..



Hopefully the contest selection committee and the team selection committee will:

1. Plan ahead and set a date for site proposals.

2. Work to ensure that contest are evenly distributed around the country.

3. Try to avoid placing nationals on the extreme coasts that discourages pilots from attending because of the distance.

4. Change the team selection rules to recognize East and West Championships as being worth 100 team selection points.

5. Merge to team selection list for Standard, 15M and 18M so that points count across classes.



TT

Tim, yes this is chaos. It would be nice to hear from people who make these decisions. I would still like to know why Bermuda High was not selected keeping with the tradition East-West-East-...

???

On Saturday, 20 September 2014 17:17:17 UTC-6, Andy K wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 6:31:41 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:51:52 PM UTC-6, Andy K wrote:



Could anyone explain why 2 years in a row we have 18 m Nationals on the west coast? This year Minden and next year Hobbs. As far as I remember Bermuda High was willing to host the 18m Nationals in 2015. This arrangement is totally unfair to East Coast pilots.















Does that mean 2016 and 2017 are going to be on the East coast?















I know some of the decision makers read this news group maybe someone is going to comment?















AK







Andy,







I am surprised it took so long for someone to comment on the sad state of US contest planning.







Many years ago there was some basic rules that were suppose to be followed for contest planning.







1. Standard and 18M would be held together and 15M and Open would be together. 2. These two contest would be held on opposite sides of the country each year.







This logical approach would have allowed Standard pilots to flying in 15M, 15m to fly in 18M and 18M to fly in Open in alternate years when their class was not on their side of the country.







Unfortunately this plan has fallen by the wayside and we now have chaos.. In 2015 we will have both Standard and 15M on the east coast and 18M will be in the west again for an other year. For 2016 we have both Standard and 15M at the same location rather than on opposite sides of the country like it is suppose to be.







Some of us have tried to encourage a better planning system for contests and also advocated for East/West nationals to end the confusion and encourage greater participation. Why should we have to drive 2500 miles to compete in our own class with a group of quality pilots? On average only one to two pilots cross the Mississippi to compete unless a contest is Mid-continent.







I have advocated for a Request For Proposals (FRP) date of November two years in advance (November 2014 for 2016 contests for example) for contest site requests and so that a logical planning pattern could happen. Any site interested could submit a proposal and all could be evaluated at one time so that contests are held at appropriate sites and allow all pilots to fly in their own class every other year at a minimum. This lead time would allow the selection committee to encourage sites to hold contest if they did not have enough request by November in the correct side of the country.







I have become very concerned about the overall quality of the US pilots going to the Worlds because we are selecting only from those that have the money and time to drive across the country each year or those that get lucky enough to have contests line up in their half of the country during selection periods.







I am glad to see the Pan-American contest being organized for next year, just wish it was being held during the summer months when more could attend.







Hopefully the contest selection committee and the team selection committee will:



1. Plan ahead and set a date for site proposals.



2. Work to ensure that contest are evenly distributed around the country.



3. Try to avoid placing nationals on the extreme coasts that discourages pilots from attending because of the distance.



4. Change the team selection rules to recognize East and West Championships as being worth 100 team selection points.



5. Merge to team selection list for Standard, 15M and 18M so that points count across classes.







TT



Tim, yes this is chaos. It would be nice to hear from people who make these decisions. I would still like to know why Bermuda High was not selected keeping with the tradition East-West-East-...



???

The SSA web site shows the contest site selection committee as:


Chairperson Ms. Linda Murray

Member Mr Peter T Alexander

Member Mr John Lubon

Member Mr Mark Keene


If you go to this page on the SSA web site it also has complete contact information for these members.

Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific NW. State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

At 05:36 21 September 2014, Craig R. wrote:
Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific
NW.
State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

Er? So why don't you hold it in the middle of the country? Of all the
countries in the world I would have thought that the USA was the place for
a National Gliding Centre

On Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:36:17 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:
Hobbs is west coast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I already corrected this, just give it a break and concentrate on the fact that there are rules that were established and are not being followed and there is no explanation why exception after exception is being made.

I have no problems with exceptions as long as someone explains the reasoning behind it and it makes sense.

Sport, that is around a 1800+ mile drive for many of us in the Pacific NW. State College PA to Hobbs; that is a SHORTER drive!

Yes, by only 100 miles. I am not sure what State College PA has to do with this problem. By the way State College is not really North East so if you compare North West to North East it would be more like 2100 miles.

No need to go back and forth on this. As I said I would at least like to understand why we ended up with what we have. As Tim said this is not a well thought through schedule, certainly no one that can drive participation up.

AK

SNIP TT Wrote:
I have become very concerned about the overall quality of the US pilots going to the Worlds because we are selecting only from those that have the money and time to drive across the country each year or those that get lucky enough to have contests line up in their half of the country during selection periods.

TT -

I too am very concerned about the quality of the US Teams we are sending overseas. The US Team should be one of the top tier teams and not toward the bottom/middle of the score sheet. It is my opinion that if we continue to use the randomly sited US nationals as US Team selection venues we will continue to get sub-optimum results at WGC's.

While I am not in favor of making the process unnecessarily costly or time consuming if those we send are used to only local, short drive and less costly competition domestically, they are going to be in for quite a shock when they face the cost, complexity, and foreign-ness of going to many a non-North American WGC site.

I thought part of the commitment to making the US team was to make pilots expend the effort to fly in different locales and weather conditions so that they would be better rounded and prepared for the rigors of a WGC. If this effort requires a long-drive, then so be it. I do not like it, but I accept it as part of the "game" and it has made me a better pilot having gone through the rigors of the current system.

As far as East/West Nationals selecting US Teams, I would be very concerned about the qualities of the teams we send if Westerners only race in Western conditions and Easterners only race in Eastern conditions. This does not immediately strike me as sending well rounded pilots to WGC's. I know some top-notch flatland pilots who almost literally s--t bricks at the thought of a mountain site or the eastern ridge sites.

In addition to some of the criteria you are in favor of, I would love to add another one: site the selection nationals in any two year selection cycle at sites that roughly replicate the challenges of the WGC that is being selected for. Or better yet, come up with an appropriately sited "selection contest" that would be held over a two-year cycle. Maybe a selection contest where the top 10 rated pilots in each WGC class would be invited to compete for the team slots in terrain and weather conditions like they will face at the next WGC

For instance, the conditions found at Hobbs for Club Class Nationals in 2015, could hardly be more different from the Lithuanian conditions the US Club Class team will face in 2016. If team selection criteria were being considered, it would make much more sense for the 2015 Club Class Nationals to be sited somewhere East (i.e. Ceasar Creek perhaps?)

I am glad to see the Pan-American contest being organized for next year, just wish it was being held during the summer months when more could attend..

On this one, you are preaching to the choir in my case, as many contests seem to be increasingly creeping into the school year. For those who are unencumbered by the school year, good for you. For those of us who are so-encumbered, and who are probably among the more youthful demographic many of us say we long for in the sport, it puts a serious crimp in plans to compete.

Maybe we should just put all contests in central Kansas and make everyone (except the Kansans among us) feel the pain of the trip and flying in "foreign" conditions :-)

Thanks all for reading my thoughts,
Tim McAllister EY