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#1
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Becker AR 4201 or Microair 760 Transceiver
Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker, just curious if the Microair is a good unit? Thanks Steve |
#2
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I have a Microaire in my AC-5M. When the engine is running
for self launch, its a high noise, high vibration environment. The Microaire works great and I have no complaints whatsoever. Further, a friend just put one in his Pilatus B-4 last month and and his works great as well. Some guys who have reported problems have installed them themselves. 95% of the times the problems relate to antenna or installation connections, not the radio (Microaire or any other.) Have a good avionics shop install it properly and you likely will have no problems. -- Peter D. Brown http://home.gci.net/~pdb/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/ |
#3
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The AC 5M... is that the Russia self launch ship? How do you like it
regarding permormance, starting sequence, handling? Do you have many hours in it? I have seen the design in pictures but not heard about it or been able to see one. Gracious for the comments on the Microaire... Steve Pete Brown wrote in message ... I have a Microaire in my AC-5M. When the engine is running for self launch, its a high noise, high vibration environment. The Microaire works great and I have no complaints whatsoever. Further, a friend just put one in his Pilatus B-4 last month and and his works great as well. Some guys who have reported problems have installed them themselves. 95% of the times the problems relate to antenna or installation connections, not the radio (Microaire or any other.) Have a good avionics shop install it properly and you likely will have no problems. |
#4
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I really like the Russia. We did have to work through some
new design problems initially with the engine and prop but once we got the bugs worked out, its a great little ship that thermals nearly like a 1-26 but glides at ~34-35/1. Its very responsive in pitch and roll and a delight to fly. It has a relatively high wing loading so it moves out when you put the nose down. We have just just less than 40 hours on it and had hoped to fly off our experimental phase 1 restrictions this weekend but the weather stinks. Ground handling is easy because the thing is so light..ours is about 420 lbs empty and I can easily push it out to the runway myself. When the engine has been stowed for a while, it takes quit a bit of priming to get fuel into the carb and with our model, the prop must be spinning quickly to get the necessary updraft to draw the fuel into the cylinder. (This has been changed with the new models.) Its no longer a problem but initially it drove us a bit nuts. Now that we understand the procedure, starting is easy. (Sometimes, something is lost in the translation in the manual from Russian to English.) Air starts after the engine has been running are easy. The airfoil profile is very accurate and the glider is very stout and well made. (Dick Our major complaint has been with the tires that leak. We threw out the tail wheel and replaced it with a plastic hub and Tost tail wheel from Wings and Wheels and solved the tail wheel problem. Our main wheel just has to be filled more often than we like. This winter we will take it off and through some bead sealant around the rim and see if it solves that problem. One word to potential owners...motorgliders require a lot more maintenance than you ever thought about on a regular sailplane. Cables and drive belts stretch and require adjustment, prop hubs require retorqueing, the vibration of a single cylinder engine shakes things loose, etc, etc. Its endemic to the species regardless of the model and you need to be committed to keep them maintained. They are not fly and forget. Also, the appeal of self launching is self evident but it can lead to a trap. Just like with 4 wheel drive on a car, you can be tempted to go places you wouldn't go in a regular vehicle, but when you get a 4X4 stuck off the road, you really have a problem. The accident rate in self launchers is pretty high, in part because guys wait too long to restart and once the engine is out, handling and performance can change radically. Discretion is the better part of valor. Pete Brown Steve B wrote: The AC 5M... is that the Russia self launch ship? How do you like it regarding permormance, starting sequence, handling? Do you have many hours in it? I have seen the design in pictures but not heard about it or been able to see one. Peter D. Brown http://home.gci.net/~pdb/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/ |
#5
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I have had the Microair, Becker, and a Dittel in my gliders over the
past 4 years. I am wholly unimpressed with the performance of the Microair (variable quality from unit to unit). The Becker worked fine. Dittel was by far the best, both in performance and standby power use, though I preferred the interface on the Becker (more intuitive). (Steve B) wrote in message . com... Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them? Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker, just curious if the Microair is a good unit? Thanks Steve |
#6
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Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker, just curious if the Microair is a good unit? I just replaced a Terra radio with a Becker and had considered the Microair. Decided to spend the extra bucks on the Becker due to indications that the Microair wasn't as high quality. Having wasted money on the Terra, I didn't want to repeat the mistake. Can't say it would have been a mistake for sure, but thought my experience relevant. The Becker has performed admirably. There may be a difference depending on whether you just need a radio for being heard within a few miles of the airport on CTAF or for contacting FSS, Flight Watch, etc. at much greater distances. In the latter cases, you need as good a radio as possible. Another factor to consider is installation cost. Once you add that in, the price difference between the two shrinks somewhat. I'm constantly amazed at how much avionics installations cost, particularly if you're certificated and need to get a 337. In that event, picking a radio that is also installed as a factory option can save much headache - and dollars. Martin |
#7
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"Steve B" wrote in message om... Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them? Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker, just curious if the Microair is a good unit? Just had a Microair die after about two years in a club ship. No warranty stations in the US, has to be shipped back to Australia for failures covered by warranty. Radio has excellent transmit and receive quality when it's working, if you have the right mike. Controls are tiny, not very intuitive to use, and are time-sensitive. Not a great choice for a club environment, but a private owner would get used to the limitations. Becker is definitely a better radio if you want to spend the cash. Dave Kinsell |
#8
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What I was getting at is that the Microair is more
sensitive to a very slightly low battery voltage than most glider instruments. When I press the PTT the LX160 does not complain about low battery voltage which means it's not going below 10V. My main battery is a 12V 12Ah Yuasa, it was new in March and has only been charged about a dozen times with an appropriate battery charger. It is expected to run an Ipaq (up to 2A more likely 0.5A) an LX160s, the radio and from time to time an artificial horizon (peak current 2A, 1.6A when running) it will run all of this kit for up to eight hours (tested in flight). This probably causes the battery voltage to fall to round about 10.5-11V after about 3 hours use. This is enough to upset the Microair. The fin battery is 12V 7Ah made up of two 6V 7Ah Yuasa batteries, it also was new in March but I keep it as a backup to ensure I'm never without a horizon in the event of the main battery going down, I've had to resort to using the fin battery to power the radio because that's the only way to get reliable transmission out of the Microair. There could be two possible causes for this. The voltage out of the main battery is down slightly under load and the Microair doesen't like it. Or, another device is putting electrical noise on the 12V line and the Microair doesen't like that. I'm not going to go for a 14V battery, strapping a mismatched 2V cell to a 12V battery is a truly awful solution to bady designed instruments that won't work properly with a 12V battery. We have similar problems with the Microair 760 fitted to one of the club's Puchacz, if the battery voltage is slightly low the radio won't transmit even though the vario and turn and slip work fine. At 14:54 01 September 2003, Cdubya wrote: Here's a simple test for you. Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals of the fin battery and record the voltage when you key the radio. Then do the same on your main battery which you said works fine. You will most likely see a lower reading on the fin battery. If the battery no longer has the capacity to trade current for voltage than this test will show that. The radios have voltage regulators in them but they need something to regulate. Usually a volt or two above the desired output. I am betting a new battery is all you need. Craig Andrew Warbrick wrote in message ... My Microair seems to be very sensitive to low battery voltage and to noise on its power supply. It receives fine connected to either battery but I can only transmit successfully when it's connected to my fin battery and the main battery is running everything else. I'm considering a 12 to 15V DC to DC converter to keep it happy but at about 50 pounds it will be a pricey fix (though not as pricey as buying a Becker). At 19:06 30 August 2003, Dfkroesch wrote: I traded in a Microair that I was unhappy with for a Becker that I have been very happy with...That was the expensive way to buy a Becker. Some people seem to have good luck with their Microairs and a lot of others do not. |
#9
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"Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message ... What I was getting at is that the Microair is more sensitive to a very slightly low battery voltage than most glider instruments. Radios in general are more sensitive to low voltage than other glider instruments. When I press the PTT the LX160 does not complain about low battery voltage which means it's not going below 10V. If you read your specs, the normal operating voltage is listed as 13.8 volts, and "emergency minimum" is listed at 10.5. Any radio you're likely to buy for a glider has serious problems transmitting below 11 volts, either distortion or total failure to transmit. If you are down at 10-11 volts, that certainly is not "very slightly" below the rated voltage of the radio. My main battery is a 12V 12Ah Yuasa, it was new in March and has only been charged about a dozen times with an appropriate battery charger. It is expected to run an Ipaq (up to 2A more likely 0.5A) an LX160s, the radio and from time to time an artificial horizon (peak current 2A, 1.6A when running) it will run all of this kit for up to eight hours (tested in flight). This probably causes the battery voltage to fall to round about 10.5-11V after about 3 hours use. This is enough to upset the Microair. You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long flight, or a simulated long flight. The fin battery is 12V 7Ah made up of two 6V 7Ah Yuasa batteries, it also was new in March but I keep it as a backup to ensure I'm never without a horizon in the event of the main battery going down, I've had to resort to using the fin battery to power the radio because that's the only way to get reliable transmission out of the Microair. There could be two possible causes for this. The voltage out of the main battery is down slightly under load and the Microair doesen't like it. Or, another device is putting electrical noise on the 12V line and the Microair doesen't like that. Or one of the cells in the main battery got damaged from being dropped. Or you have defective wiring. Or you get significant drops from diodes that people like to sprinkle into multi-battery systems. Or one of your many switches has bad contacts. Or you've got a slow-blow fuse with excessive resistance. These are just a few of the possibilities. There is absolutely no substitute for measuring the voltage, and then studying the specs in your manual. I'm not going to go for a 14V battery, strapping a mismatched 2V cell to a 12V battery is a truly awful solution to bady designed instruments that won't work properly with a 12V battery. Gosh, I've got 7 perfectly matched cells in a battery that fits in the tail fin, powers the whole panel for 6 hours no problem. I haven't seen less than 13.5 volts, during transmit, at the end of long flights. Never has glitched the flight recorder, and I don't have to be distracted with flipping switches during the flight to try to find enough juice to keep things powered. There is a certain elegance in using a proper battery in the first place. Let's see, 14 volt radio, 14 volt battery. No wonder it works so good. Starting with a battery two volts too low, then slapping on a DC-DC converter to try to compensate for undiagnosed problems in your electrical system doesn't strike me as an elegant solution. We have similar problems with the Microair 760 fitted to one of the club's Puchacz, if the battery voltage is slightly low the radio won't transmit even though the vario and turn and slip work fine. That's just the way radios work, if you have an inadequate electrical system. They're the first to fail due to low voltage. Dittels and Beckers don't work at low voltage either. Dave Kinsell |
#10
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You actually can display the battery voltage on the LX160 for this pupose,
and do that while you transmitt on the radio (or, at least trying to...) -- Bert Willing ASW20 "TW" "David Kinsell" a écrit dans le message de news:_6F7b.306778$Oz4.99624@rwcrnsc54... "Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message ... You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long flight, or a simulated long flight. |
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