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#21
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 2:15:07 PM UTC-5, Jonathon May wrote:
At 18:47 08 December 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote: Some where there is a photo of a propellor blade sticking out of a duo discus wing.It was part of the AD sent out after a hub failure left the blades coming off. IIRC, more recent is the blade sticking out of a DG-1000 wing. Different style hub (conventional 2-blade prop). Anyone have that picture? |
#22
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:01:48 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Motor in a sailplane = a complicated abomination, ...... An efficient light power plane utilizing sailplane aerodynamics = beautiful engineering.,,,, As the Italians put it: Donna e moto amore e dolore... |
#23
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 3:38:04 PM UTC-6, Tom BravoMike wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:01:48 PM UTC-6, wrote: Motor in a sailplane = a complicated abomination, ...... An efficient light power plane utilizing sailplane aerodynamics = beautiful engineering.,,,, As the Italians put it: Donna e moto amore e dolore... Well, for one, my spouse has never failed me (and she's prettier than any Rotax, Solo or FES engine). |
#24
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
Well, for one, my spouse has never failed me (and she's prettier than any Rotax, Solo or FES engine).
I hear ya there Duster, and in response to someones post earlier, I never denegrated the UTILITY of a motor glider, just said they are an abomination lol. I get the same utility without tying up 100,000k in finances. As for a tow plane, not needed, my truck and 1800 ft of spectra do just fine but thats if your not afraid to thermal below 1,000ft. And it costs peanuts. |
#25
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
He must have been a glider pilot or at least, he showed great aptitude and someone should have given him his glider-wings!
Uli 'AS' On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 12:38:56 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote: HERE is an example of a jet sustainer failure to start.Â* Good glide path control, but I thought he may have waited a bit longer than required before dumping his ballast. On 12/8/2019 9:59 AM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 11:46:36 AM UTC-5, kinsell wrote: No one has mentioned jets? They can be unreliable to get started, and there's been uncontained blade failures. Even had the engine depart the A/C. Interesting, I've heard of numerous failures to start and failure to climb, but not uncontained blade failures or engine departing AC... -- Dan, 5J |
#27
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues, in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements. I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example: - failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor) - failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc) - failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc) - failed drive belts - failed electrical connectors - failed motor controller - failed electronics and anything else you might happen to have. Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.. Please email to me offline. Thanks in advance for the help! Best Regards, Dave PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed: http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df If this talk is to be about safety issues, it shouldn't be concerned with maintenance issues. Safety issues are things that affect the outcome of a flight - if a maintenance issue occurs that prevents the flight from occurring, there is no safety issue. An in-flight fire is definitely a safety issue; a dead battery that keeps you from starting your engine is not. I have experienced both; examples include: Maintenance: Hydrolocking due to unknown contamination in the fuel system. Flywheel screws that jam engine operation because of insufficient locking adhesive. Drive belt that fails during engine starting. Engine controller failure due to unknown causes. Flight safety: Mast mounting bolt failure due to unknown causes resulting in loss of all power (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing). Fuel system fire due to unknown causes (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing). Decompression valve plug working out due to missing washer (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing). The truth is that very few true flight safety issues have occurred, perhaps on a par with towplane engine failures. The more likely issue is engine failure to start with a bad outlanding outcome. And, I suspect these are dwarfed by all of the fatal stall/spins trying to do a low save (one occurred recently). Tom |
#28
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues, in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements. I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example: - failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor) - failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc) - failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc) - failed drive belts - failed electrical connectors - failed motor controller - failed electronics and anything else you might happen to have. Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.. Please email to me offline. Thanks in advance for the help! Best Regards, Dave PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed: http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing. DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places. My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout BG |
#29
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote: I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues, in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements. I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example: - failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor) - failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc) - failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc) - failed drive belts - failed electrical connectors - failed motor controller - failed electronics and anything else you might happen to have. Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description. Please email to me offline. Thanks in advance for the help! Best Regards, Dave PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed: http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing. DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.. My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout BG Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire? Tom |
#30
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Looking for pictures of motorglider failures
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote: On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote: I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues, in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements. I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example: - failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor) - failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc) - failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc) - failed drive belts - failed electrical connectors - failed motor controller - failed electronics and anything else you might happen to have. Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description. Please email to me offline. Thanks in advance for the help! Best Regards, Dave PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed: http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing. DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places. My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout BG Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire? Tom Haven't there been 3-4 Stemme in-flight fires world wide? Frank |
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