How did you install your FLARM brick and/or ADS-B Out?

Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument.
Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
If you have both, why would you fly with one on and not the other?
If necessary, how is the Trig -2X and the TN-72 software updated?

Thanks for your reply.

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 10:17:18 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
powered by the S80 vary, which is connected to "nav" breaker

Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Slaved to S80

Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument..
Dedicated

Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
no

If you have both, why would you fly with one on and not the other?
ADS-B out must be on, if installed, per FAA regs. Flarm is my logger, so always on.

If necessary, how is the Trig -2X and the TN-72 software updated?
Trig 22 must be factory updated, I believe. Not sure about the TN72. I have both.

Thanks for your reply.

Other notes: I panel mounted the USB connector for the FLAM on the panel to facilitate updates and flight downloads. I was frustrated by not being able to see the LED on the Flarm brick, so I used an optical audio cable to remote it. I glued (after some belt sanding) one end of the optical cable to the side of the USB connector on the Flarm side, such that it lined up with the LED. On the panel side, I remove some of the optical connector jacket, exposing 1/4" of brass tubing with fiber inside. Then I drilled a small hole in the panel near the USB connector and epoxied the brass tubing/fiber in the hole. Now I can see the LED on the panel!

Matt

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 10:17:18 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument..
Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
If you have both, why would you fly with one on and not the other?
If necessary, how is the Trig -2X and the TN-72 software updated?

Thanks for your reply.

First thanks for flying with a transponder and PowerFLARM.

You are trying to get what "ADS-B Out"? What exactly are you doing? TABS or 2020 Compliant 1090ES Out? In a type certified or experimental glider?

The Trig TN72 installation manual answers several of these questions. It specifies a 1A breaker for the TN72 for example.Â*

Why would you want an on/off switch for any of this? The Transponder and TN72 and PowerFLARM should all be on by default with your master avionics power, if there is a problem when you need to turn it off you have the breaker.

A 2020 compliant ADS-B Out system, just like a Transponder, is not supposed to be turned off in flight, Â*and with 1099ES Out, or even just Mode-S, if you do you are advertising exactly who you are to everybody watching.

Trig transponder software is updated by Mid Continent. It's a free upgrade, you just pay for shipping. Send them the transponder body and control head, and include a note just saying you want the software updated and your return address and phone number. Just ship it off, does not require an RMA, they will call you back when ready to return. They have a repair center in Kansas and another in Southern California, pick the one closest or call them to check if unsure. Usually takes about a week plus shipping. https://www.mcico.com/customer-servi...ervice-centers

For 2020 ADS-B Out Compliance or TABS the transponder *must* be on software 2.12 or later. This upgrades the Transpoder to DO-260B/TSO-C166b aka "1090ES version 2" compatibility without which you have no hope of 2020 Compliance or all the TABS features working, and you will likely get is a please explain letter from the FAA.

See https://www.trig-avionics.com/suppor...oduct-software

However there is no need to be on the very latest 2.13 software, if you are on 2.12 just use that. 2.13 adds supposedly improved GPS based air/ground determination... but that is aimed at GA aircraft. That GPS air/ground determination update was not intended for gliders and will likely fail in wave conditions with very low groundspeed, it may even fail in just strong headwinds. As I have posted here before, if going for 2020 compliance I would install the pitot "squat" switch from the TN70 STC kit, if a TABS install just set the squat switch to none in the setup menu. Â*Transmitting ground mode ADS-B Out messages while airborne is very bad and will get you noticed by the FAA. It's silly for most gliders to ever want to be in ground mode, we are not landing at SFO and taxying around, but for 2020 Compliance the FAA effectively requires all aircraft to transmit ground mode messages while on the ground. Every glider community Trig dealer should be up on this and asking if the install is TABS or 2020 Complaint and if the later should be offering to sell you that switch with the TN72, if they are not then find a better dealer.

You should assume that every 2020 Complaint or TABS installation might be a challenge to get the GPS receiver antenna position to work well enough. This is much more demanding than any other GPS antenna install you will have in a typical glider. You *have* to test this works by test-flying and reviewing FAA ADS-B Out public performance reports. The antenna needs to be high and central under the instrument cover, with as good a sky view as you can get down to the horizon all around. You may need to get rid of metal or other RF opaque objects in the sky view, that might include things like the brass instrument panel support rods on Schleicher gliders etc. Get the install done, maybe with the GPS antenna temporarily secured at first, and test fly it and pull a FAA Public ADS-B Out Performance Report and check this works before assuming you are done. If you or your A&P thinks a GPS splitter is acceptable for this use, be extra careful to performance test with that in the circuit, you may need to compare results with and without if the report shows problems.

While I want to encourage A&Ps to be doing more of these installs, they really need to be working with customers and insisting they test fly those aircraft, including even for TABS installs, and review the results together. A 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out install in a type certified glider clearly requires the A&P to make sure a test flight is done and FAA report obtained (or use fancy ADS-B Out ground test equipment which *nobody* has), all other cases are less clear... but just do it. I'm always happy to look over performance reports TABS installs will always get flagged as failing those FAA reports, which are looking only for 2020 Compliance. TABS will fail in NIC, SIL and SDA, that's expected, but the actual numbers in the report tell if it's working as a TABS device.

I am working on this now and will hopefully have some web pages up within a few weeks with setup instructions, testing instructions and other info the the TN72 in gliders in the USA.

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 12:14:47 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 10:17:18 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument.

Thanks for your input Darryl -- you're the bomb.

Details = experimental, 2020 ADS-B out compliant, TT22, TN-72 with squatt switch, TA-70 antenna. (For an experimental install, I really wonder what advantage the TA-70 has over "everyday" pucks)

Your current feelings about GPS antennea splitters?

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 1:17:18 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument.
Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
If you have both, why would you fly with one on and not the other?
If necessary, how is the Trig -2X and the TN-72 software updated?

Thanks for your reply.

I have CORE only:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Directly; display is powered by RJ45.
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
CB
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Dedicated switch
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument
Dedicated provided GPS antenna (provided). Followed installation instructions for GPS and antenna spacing.
Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
Flying since 2012 with it; it is the last instrument to go off in my cockpit (if low power).

I expect the TA70 antenna to have no advantage and lots of disadvantage over a TA50 or compatible antenna. Starting with it may be much easier to better position the small TA50. I believe Trig published enough statements about the TA50 Compatibility to use it for 2020 compliance in an experimental glider and enough for TABS in any glider. The situation with a 2020 compliant install with a TN70 in a type certified glider is more complex (that distant sound is me beating my head against the wall). I would not want to use the TA70 in any other installs except with the TN70 in a type certified glider following the TN70 STC.

Unfortunately some glider manufacturers were installing the TN70 thinking it was needed even in experimental gliders. That fugly wall wart has caused more problems that it was worth. Other glider manufacturers, working with Trig HQ, have standardized on the TA50 antenna at least for experimental gliders.

I am not a fan of GPS splitters for ADS-B Out system that may already be hard enough to get working. But again, if you you believe they can be used and meet compliance needs the emphasis should be on flight testing the whole setup. Certainly folks are using splitters for Some installs that seem to work OK.

With 2020 Compliance, great you are using the pneumatic squat switch. If you don’t mind I will shoot you a link to some draft doc soon.

Another issue to plan is where and how to physically mount the Trig transponder and GPS bricks. Using a long cable to connect the transponder brick to the panel unit gives you more flexibility on where to place the bricks. I mounted my two bricks on a vertical piece of plywood behind my headrest. I fabricated a perforated metal cover to insure air circulation around the bricks even if my 'survival bag' on the turtle deck is pressing against the perforated cover.

There's no carbon fiber in my glider. The GPS antenna is velcro-ed inside the fuselage above the turtle deck. The transponder antenna is inside the fuselage about four feet behind the bricks in the boom (as far away as possible from my head and metal parts). I made a special tool to reach back into the fuselage. Mounting the transponder antenna was by far the hardest part of the installation task. Powerflarm antennas are in the nose in front of the panel, so I have about five feet between my two GPS antennas.

I recommend giving yourself a lot of time to sort out where and how to mount the physical pieces. The wiring is trivially easy if you buy a custom made wiring harness.

On Sunday, November 17, 2019 at 12:17:18 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Is it powered direct or by another instrument?
Did you install a dedicated fuse?
trig TT22 powered by a dedicated fused circuit
Did you install a dedicated off/on switch or is it slaved?
Master switch supplies power to trig TT22 dedicated circuit
Do you use a dedicated GPS antennae or split with another instrument.
Ta70 (actually a Rami AV 801)powered by TN70 WAAS GPS receiver
TN 70 powered by TT22
Do you ever have the in-flight need to turn it off?
If I'm in the glider, on the ground or in the air, It's on.
If you have both, why would you fly with one on and not the other?
No flarm. And I have yet to determine if I will ever need it,
I fly in western Oklahoma and only 1 other glider even has Flarm
In my area.
If necessary, how is the Trig -2X and the TN-72 software updated?
I have pulled seven or so ads-b reports and they all have been perfect.
I am hoping the Oudie will include a non flarm Ads-b In function the
future.

Cheers and good lift,
Scott

I mounted the TT22 remote box under the cockpit floor in front of the
stick in my LAK-17a.Â* It was a large empty space intended for a "nose
hook" which my glider did not have.Â* I purchased the custom cable but,
due to restrictions in the cable path, had to remove the connector from
one end and reinstall it after the cable was run.

I took the transponder with me when I acquired the Stemme and it was
simple to mount it vertically in the instrument box behind the panel.Â*
Later, when I added ADS-B, I mounted the TN72 box right next to the
TT22.Â* The TN72 is powered by a 1-Amp circuit breaker as required by the
STC for Certificated aircraft.Â* I also included a pitot-activated
"squat" switch for air/ground determination.Â* The TA70 antenna is
mounted on a shelf fabricated of aluminum sheet and attached to one of
the steel tubes in the engine bay.Â* It is located above the engine and
under the fiberglass turtle deck, which is easily removable.

As an aside on custom cables.Â* If you're flying an Experimental glider,
the custom cable should work just fine.Â* But, if you fly a Certificated
glider, it's not so simple.Â* In my case, the custom cable took
electrical power from the TT22 to power the TN70 which does not conform
to the STC.Â* I had to open the cable shells on the custom cable to
disconnect the power wires and I also had to add two wires for the
pneumatic air/ground switch.Â* The work was not difficult for anyone
familiar with cable assembly, but you should know.

I have a power flarm portable which is mounted to the top of the glare
shield which is not pertinent to your question.Â* The PF portable does
receive ADS-B traffic transmitted in response to my ADS-B Out
transmissions.Â* Targets are displayed on my ClearNav II moving map and
on a separate Flarm View display.

On 11/17/2019 8:09 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
Another issue to plan is where and how to physically mount the Trig transponder and GPS bricks. Using a long cable to connect the transponder brick to the panel unit gives you more flexibility on where to place the bricks. I mounted my two bricks on a vertical piece of plywood behind my headrest. I fabricated a perforated metal cover to insure air circulation around the bricks even if my 'survival bag' on the turtle deck is pressing against the perforated cover.

There's no carbon fiber in my glider. The GPS antenna is velcro-ed inside the fuselage above the turtle deck. The transponder antenna is inside the fuselage about four feet behind the bricks in the boom (as far away as possible from my head and metal parts). I made a special tool to reach back into the fuselage. Mounting the transponder antenna was by far the hardest part of the installation task. Powerflarm antennas are in the nose in front of the panel, so I have about five feet between my two GPS antennas.

I recommend giving yourself a lot of time to sort out where and how to mount the physical pieces. The wiring is trivially easy if you buy a custom made wiring harness.

--
Dan, 5J