Garmin 1000 turn co-ordinator?

Mike Rapoport wrote:
Are you going to use any conventional instruments for redundancy? I have a
Murphy Moose kit on order and I am thinking ahead about what I want as far
as instruments and avionics go. I am considering both conventional and
glass cockpit types. I am weighing the weight and ease of installation
heavily against cost. It would be nice to forgo the vacuum system
altogether.

If you look at the lifetime cost of a dry pump vacuum system, that
should be a fair bit to use to offset the cost of your glass cockpit
equipment.


Matt

The question is: Can (should) I rely completely on the (single) electrical
system in my home built airplane?

Mike
MU-2

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
Are you going to use any conventional instruments for redundancy? I
have a
Murphy Moose kit on order and I am thinking ahead about what I want as
far
as instruments and avionics go. I am considering both conventional and
glass cockpit types. I am weighing the weight and ease of installation
heavily against cost. It would be nice to forgo the vacuum system
altogether.

If you look at the lifetime cost of a dry pump vacuum system, that
should be a fair bit to use to offset the cost of your glass cockpit
equipment.


Matt

Mike Rapoport wrote:
The question is: Can (should) I rely completely on the (single) electrical
system in my home built airplane?

Yes, that is a good question to ask. However, if you have an alternator
failure warning light, you still have 30+ minutes of energy in the
battery, depending on battery size and how much load you can shed given
the conditions. I had a failure flying IFR into OSH several years ago
and flew the last 30 minutes mostly in IMC with one nav/com, the
transponder and my GPS. Still had enough juice to almost lower the
flaps for landing. :-)

So, there is a little bit of redundancy electrically. Contrast that to
the vacuum system where the only stored energy is what is in the gyros.
This typically is minutes at most. I had a precise flight standby
system in my Skylane which worked OK if you kept the manifold pressure
fairly low. However, enter a climb and you were toast.

I'm not sure what engine you have in mind for the Moose, but can you get
one with two alternator pads?


Matt

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message thlink.net...
Are you going to use any conventional instruments for redundancy? I have a
Murphy Moose kit on order and I am thinking ahead about what I want as far
as instruments and avionics go. I am considering both conventional and
glass cockpit types. I am weighing the weight and ease of installation
heavily against cost. It would be nice to forgo the vacuum system
altogether.

Mike
MU-2

Hi, Mike.

I have steam airspeed, altimeter, and the electrric T&B. I am going to
be flying some IFR, and I think those'll get me home. I do have
redundant electrical systems. There are the two GPS's, and the CNX 80
has a VOR function...but I ramble. Yes, two steam instruments and a
T&B.

Jim

Andrew Gideon wrote in message gonline.com...
Andrew Gideon wrote:


This is the equivilant of having "standard rate" marks on the AI where the
marks move based upon airspace?

Wups. Air*speed*. Not "space".

- Andrew


Hi, Andrew...yup, they widen as airspeed increases. And for sure,
airspace is gonna widen too! :-)

Jim

A better image, but of the Avidyne Entegra, is here (about a megabyte):

http://www.avidyne.com/HighRez/P_Entegra_PFD.jpg

The black and white pyramid is the "ball" - when the top and bottom are
aligned then you're in trim.

I'm flying a (rental) Cirrus SR20 with this system these days, and
although I absolutely love the Avidyne/Garmin system I'm still not used
to this representation of coordination - it doesn't lend itself to "step
on the ball" very well. That said, and I keep forgetting this when I'm
flying, the SR20's backup AI has a conventional ball-tube mounted on it.

Dave Blevins

On 29 Dec 2003 05:31:09 -0800, (Mike Long) wrote:

Under the arc at the topmost part of the screen (the arc is the rate
of turn indicator), you will see a small trapezoid. This is the "ball
indicator" and shows skids and slips by moving in the appropriate
direction. It's in a very logical place and is an easy-to-monitor
indication.

This photo cut off for some reason but you can still see the white
reference point for turn rate (top) and the trapezoid below for the
ball, both on the left hand screen very top.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24574624/original

Here is a better photo of the PFD. By the way, I did not take the
photo so please excuse the copyright notice to my name - I have not
found a way to delete it as pbase puts it automatically on my bird and
landscape photo's (which are mine). This shot is from Cessna's
library.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24595911

Mike

(Mike Long) wrote in message . com...
Under the arc at the topmost part of the screen (the arc is the rate
of turn indicator), you will see a small trapezoid. This is the "ball
indicator" and shows skids and slips by moving in the appropriate
direction. It's in a very logical place and is an easy-to-monitor
indication.

This photo cut off for some reason but you can still see the white
reference point for turn rate (top) and the trapezoid below for the
ball, both on the left hand screen very top.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24574624/original

Mike


"John H. Kay" wrote in message ...
Hi.

How do the new glass cockpits (Garmin or Avidyne) indicate rate of turn,
and also whether the plane is slipping or skidding?

I know we can do the simple rule of thumb sum for standard rate turns,
giving the approx. bank angle for the speed we're using, but we're all
trained to check the little wings and the ball for reassurance as part
of the scan in conventionally instrumented aircraft.

On any picture of these new screens, I can't see where there is an
indication of the rate of turn, although I think lack of co-ordination
may manifest itself by another pointer coming away from the main one on
the AI. No article I've read, so far, on these screens mentions these
points.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...

Yes, that is a good question to ask. However, if you have an alternator
failure warning light, you still have 30+ minutes of energy in the
battery, depending on battery size and how much load you can shed given
the conditions.

Except if you get smoke in the cockpit and you only have one elecrical
bus, you cannot isolate the problem by turning off each bus
individually -- you have to turn off the whole electrical system with
all of your nav/com/instrumentation equipment.. not good.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

However, enter a climb and you were toast.

Like...a missed approach.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:
Matthew S. Whiting wrote:


However, enter a climb and you were toast.


Like...a missed approach.

- Andrew


Bingo. And the only vacuum failure I ever had was during climb-out
right before entering the soup, where the standby system likely would
have been useless. Fortunately, the annunciator worked and I was able
to break off the climb while still in VMC and return.

I still think the standby vacuum system is essential with vacuum powered
instruments, and I even had a pretty reliable wet pump in my Skylane.
The ironic part is that my vacuum system failure was actually due to the
addition of the standby backup system! There was a T fitting that came
apart, and the fitting was added as part of the system. The pump itself
never failed in the 1000 hrs. that the airplane gained while I was in
partnership on it.

However, I really like the idea of an all electric airplane with
appropriate redundancy.


Matt