A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Neil Lawson of whiteplanes, died yesterday



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 11th 05, 05:53 PM
John Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66










  #22  
Old August 11th 05, 06:35 PM
Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 11 Aug 2005 16:53:01 GMT, John Sinclair
wrote:

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?


After the facts of the incident are know. Not when you are
speculating on the causes.

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66









  #23  
Old August 11th 05, 07:55 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That really makes me want to pay attention to an intellectual such as
yourself.

  #24  
Old August 11th 05, 10:24 PM
Nick Gilbert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Likewise with your post Gary.

What are you adding to the discussion apart from being sarcastic toward
a someone who has clearly just lost a close friend?

Nick.

  #25  
Old August 11th 05, 11:05 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No sarcasm intended but calling people names never really solved any
problems or furthered intelligent discussion

  #26  
Old August 11th 05, 11:06 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And by the way, this is one reason I rarely respond to any postings on
RAS

  #27  
Old August 11th 05, 11:06 PM
Don Johnstone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This event is 'sub judice' and is being investigated
by the police and the AIB on behalf of HM Coroner.
In view of the serious nature of the event and the
tragic consequences I would urge everyone to think
of the wisdom of comment until the facts are known,
and they will be in due course.
I feel that it is inappropriate for people to be exchanging
personal insults at any time but especially now.
Can we please all agree that everyone has an opinion
but for the time being it may be best that such opinions
are not publicly expressed.


At 17:36 11 August 2005, Bob wrote:
On 11 Aug 2005 16:53:01 GMT, John Sinclair
wrote:

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?


After the facts of the incident are know. Not when
you are
speculating on the causes.

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66













  #28  
Old August 12th 05, 07:35 AM
M B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This suggestion perhaps doesn't have relevance for
this particular accident. Your point is taken, and
you are right. I don't know if in this particular
case he was intending to photo the glider that hit
him or a different photo.

I think I was just expressing some helplessness that
this kind of thing happens at all, and trying to feel
like there is something I could contribute that might
help, even if it wasn't a good suggestion...

But yes, Bruce, I see your point, and may have strayed
off topic.

My God, though, the man took some astonishingly great
photos...thank you for the link.

At 06:00 11 August 2005, Bruce Hoult wrote:
In article ,
M B wrote:

Crazy idea: how about putting a whistle on the gear
door so when the
gear is down it whistles through the air? Also works
as a gear
indicator. I dunno, maybe not a great idea, but something.


As you sugesting that he didn't know the glider was
there? Becuase if
not then that suggestion is pretty irelevant to this
tragedy.

I don't think you get pics such as the following by
not knowing that the
glider is the

http://www.whiteplanes.com/gliders/gliders23.htm

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

Mark J. Boyd


  #29  
Old August 12th 05, 09:56 AM
Jeremy Hood
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What got me so angry was you stupid, insensitive posting,
not the underlying issue that you feel is present in
gliding. Have a clue man: a tragic accident occurs
which affects many in the gliding world, and you wait
all of 12 hours to start sounding off with you own
personal agenda.

I don't feel I was hurling insults, but placing them
where they are most definately needed. By the way,
for the record, here is my private email to you, which
I stand by, so all can judge the 'torrent of abuse'
I gave you:

'John,

How dare you use the very tragic news of the Junior
worlds accident to further illustrate your own personal
views on finish lines. I find your posting completely
insensitive, very poorly timed, and judged. You don't
know what actually happened, as you were not there-
so why bother with the posting at all? I am actually
disgusted with you- next time think about what you're
saying.


Jez Hood'


Now I'm just disappointed with you.



At 16:54 11 August 2005, John Sinclair wrote:
Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66













  #30  
Old August 12th 05, 10:32 AM
Andrew Warbrick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd just like to add that I'm sure a lot more of us
are thinking what Jeremy is saying. As he is the current
Junior World Champion, I for one think he's the right
one to say it.

At 09:00 12 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
What got me so angry was you stupid, insensitive posting,
not the underlying issue that you feel is present in
gliding. Have a clue man: a tragic accident occurs
which affects many in the gliding world, and you wait
all of 12 hours to start sounding off with you own
personal agenda.

I don't feel I was hurling insults, but placing them
where they are most definately needed. By the way,
for the record, here is my private email to you, which
I stand by, so all can judge the 'torrent of abuse'
I gave you:

'John,

How dare you use the very tragic news of the Junior
worlds accident to further illustrate your own personal
views on finish lines. I find your posting completely
insensitive, very poorly timed, and judged. You don't
know what actually happened, as you were not there-
so why bother with the posting at all? I am actually
disgusted with you- next time think about what you're
saying.


Jez Hood'


Now I'm just disappointed with you.



At 16:54 11 August 2005, John Sinclair wrote:
Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66

















 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coalition casualties for October Michael Petukhov Military Aviation 16 November 5th 03 12:14 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.