[USA] What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. Additionally, we will vote on:

The future WGC calendar
The site of the 2014 WGC
Ballast in the 13.5 meter class
Handicaps in the 20 meter 2 seat class
The Club class handicap list
Use of GPS altitude above FL 500
Pilot ID in the declaration
Medals for team performances
Using GPS for Silver and Gold Altitude

Details on all the proposals are at http://www.fai.org/gliding/igc_plenary11

What are your views on these issues? How should USA vote? Let me
know here, or by email, or in person at the SSA Conference.

Rick Sheppe
usa.igc.fai 'at' gmail.com

On Jan 24, 5:51*pm, R S wrote:
At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *Additionally, we will vote on:

The future WGC calendar
The site of the 2014 WGC
Ballast in the 13.5 meter class
Handicaps in the 20 meter 2 seat class
The Club class handicap list
Use of GPS altitude above FL 500
Pilot ID in the declaration
Medals for team performances
Using GPS for Silver and Gold Altitude

Details on all the proposals are athttp://www.fai.org/gliding/igc_plenary11

What are your views on these issues? *How should USA vote? *Let me
know here, or by email, or in person at the SSA Conference.

Rick Sheppe
usa.igc.fai 'at' gmail.com

I don't expect to be at Uvalde but I'm opposed to mandatory FLARM.
The issue is not that use of FLARM is not a good idea rather how you
enforce the rule and what you do if a pilot has a FLARM failure.

If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting
pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. With no FCC
certification they will not be legal for use in USA. IGC cannot, or
at least should not, mandate an illegal operation.

Andy

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:35:36 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:


If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting
pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. With no FCC
certification they will not be legal for use in USA. IGC cannot, or
at least should not, mandate an illegal operation.

Then CANCEL the WGC at Uvalde.
Period.

If the organizers of a WGC forbid the use of THE major safety device,
they ought to be forbidden to hold ANY international contests.
Period.


Sorry if I sound angry - but I am.
Forbidding the use of FLARM at a WGC is about the dumbest thing that I
ever read on r.a.s.




Andreas

On Jan 25, 5:51*am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:35:36 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting
pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. *With no FCC
certification they will not be legal for use in USA. *IGC cannot, or
at least should not, mandate an illegal operation.

Then CANCEL the WGC at Uvalde.
Period.

If the organizers of a WGC forbid the use of THE major safety device,
they ought to be forbidden to hold ANY international contests.
Period.

Sorry if I sound angry - but I am.
Forbidding the use of FLARM at a WGC is about the dumbest thing that I
ever read on r.a.s.

Andreas

Cool down. Who said anything about prohibiting anything?

There is a big difference between a) prohibiting/forbidding, b)
encouraging, and c) mandating.

Where did you read on RAS that anyone advocated option a)? I
certainly didn't say that.

Andy

On 1-25-2011 12:51, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:35:36 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting
pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. With no FCC
certification they will not be legal for use in USA. IGC cannot, or
at least should not, mandate an illegal operation.

Then CANCEL the WGC at Uvalde.
Period.

If the organizers of a WGC forbid the use of THE major safety device,
they ought to be forbidden to hold ANY international contests.
Period.


Sorry if I sound angry - but I am.
Forbidding the use of FLARM at a WGC is about the dumbest thing that I
ever read on r.a.s.




Andreas

I have no idea what these devices even are (I'm a powered plane guy with
just some time in gliders). However, if I understand what you are
saying is these devices may not be "type accepted" by the FCC, in which
case they would be illegal in the USA. So, are you suggesting that laws
be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to
just use them anyway? As a (licensed) user of FCC regulated airwaves in
my other hobby, I can not condone having illegal "transmitters" used
against present FCC regs. I ASSUME these things use transmitters or are
they strictly a receive only device?

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000, Scott
wrote:


So, are you suggesting that laws
be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to
just use them anyway?

No.

To repeat myself:
What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of
effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any
competition, especially not the most prestigious one.

Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally.



Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules
*prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts?


Andreas

On Jan 25, 4:06*pm, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000, Scott
wrote:

So, are you suggesting that laws
be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to
just use them anyway? *

No.

To repeat myself:
What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of
effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any
competition, especially not the most prestigious one.

Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally.

Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules
*prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts?

Andreas

Where is exactly did you see anyone say that anything was being
prohibited by WGC organizers. Will you please quote what you think
was said. Otherwise please stop being so upset about an issue that
exists only in your imagination.

Andy

In article Andreas Maurer writes:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000, Scott
wrote:


So, are you suggesting that laws
be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to
just use them anyway?

No.

To repeat myself:
What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of
effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any
competition, especially not the most prestigious one.

Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally.



Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules
*prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts?


Andreas



If I show up in Germany and start transmitting radio signals on
cellular bands with something other than a cellphone, the German
government is going to be displeased with that action. The same is
true of any such activity on inappropriate frequencies.

Just because I like using radios on U.S. frequencies to coordinate
my activities, doesn't mean that they will be legal in another
country.

I don't get to fly in some types of airspace without permission,
either.

Do the contest organizers in Germany approve of breaking laws,
violating airspace, violating radio frequency space, and the like?


Alan

On 1-25-2011 23:06, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000,
wrote:


So, are you suggesting that laws
be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to
just use them anyway?

No.

To repeat myself:
What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of
effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any
competition, especially not the most prestigious one.

Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally.

I'm still not 100% sure I understand. Are you implying it is unsafe to
fly without FLARM and nobody should be able to host a "World" event if
FLARM is not allowed? I assume you are from outside the USA. When
Americans fly in competitions overseas, can we use stuff that is legal
in the USA but not legal in the hosting country? Why should the hosting
country have to allow a technology that is not legal there?




Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules
*prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts?

I don't know of any countries where safety belts are illegal. Safety
belts are not transmitters that could interfere with radio receivers
already installed in aircraft or interfere with other licensed radio
services.




Andreas

An interesting argument. My glider was manufactured in Europe, all of the
instruments, except for the Australian radio are European, the parachute
is European, and of course the Flarm is European although I can change the
run-time options for it to transmit on USA frequencies. The glider is
registered in Europe and, as far as I know, none of it is FAA approved.
Does that mean that I, a European, cannot fly it in the USA? I thought
that the FAA recognised aircraft that are regulated by EASA and allowed
them unrestricted access to USA airspace (in terms of airworthiness
regulations).

A World competition with only American gliders?


At 01:35 25 January 2011, Andy wrote:


If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting
pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. With no FCC
certification they will not be legal for use in USA. IGC cannot, or
at least should not, mandate an illegal operation.

Andy