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Complex / High Performance / Low Performance



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 29th 04, 12:33 PM
Dan Luke
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"Brenor Brophy" wrote:

So a 172RG would NOT be a complex plane
because it has a fixed pitch prop.


The ones I've flown must be exceptions.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #12  
Old June 29th 04, 01:18 PM
Steve Robertson
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Not much. You need to be able to discuss and demonstrate appropriate engine
management proceedures. That is, locate and use the correct procedures in the
POH. Since most high-performance aircraft also have a CS prop, the relationship
between RPM/MP/fuel flow will normally be emphasized. As will proper fuel since
many of these engines are high compression. Some knowldge of turbocharging and
fuel injection will normally be required.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:

:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),


What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?


  #13  
Old June 29th 04, 01:42 PM
Bushy
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Thankfully this is top posting in this thread, it takes to much scrolling to
get down to the arse of the thread.....
;)

So for a fifty hour pilot that wants to fly (+ homebuild...) a complex, high
performance aircraft from his back yard (the nicest thing about living on
160 acres, is being able to make a runway and a hanger!) the extra training
is not much?

Yet it allows so much extra take-off and landing performance, especially at
a summer density altitude of 5000 plus feet and a tiny little 330 metres or
1000 feet of runway?

If only I could find a nice amphibion set of floats for it......

;)
Peter


"Steve Robertson" wrote in message
...
Not much. You need to be able to discuss and demonstrate appropriate

engine
management proceedures. That is, locate and use the correct procedures in

the
POH. Since most high-performance aircraft also have a CS prop, the

relationship
between RPM/MP/fuel flow will normally be emphasized. As will proper fuel

since
many of these engines are high compression. Some knowldge of turbocharging

and
fuel injection will normally be required.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:

:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance

airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person

may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane

with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),


What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?




  #14  
Old June 29th 04, 02:39 PM
EDR
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In article , 10Squared
wrote:

What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?


Meeting the minimum insurance requirements. ;-))
  #15  
Old June 29th 04, 02:46 PM
EDR
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In article , R.T. wrote:

For my needs a decent payload is going to be important, so I am considering
purchasing a 182 or possibly a Cherokee 6 (which would suit me even better).
Any opinions on either of these aircraft good or bad would be appreciated.


Six seats vice four seats gives you more flexibility, leg room and
cargo space.

The Cherokee Six has a ten knot speed advantage in cruise (135 kts vice
125 kts).

For off airport/non-paved surface operations, the 182 will be less
succeptible to FOD damage (high wing and higher horizontal stabilizer)

Typical Cessna vice Piper arguements:
High wing vice low wing
Both have two doors, in this case!

I fly both and I think the 182 will get in and out of shorter fields.
Then again, the Cherokee Six has 300 higher gross (3400 lbs vice 3100
lbs)
The 1978 Cherokee Six has 84 gallons usable
The 1986 Cessna 182R has 88 gallons usable

The Cherokee Six consumes 16 gph in cruise
The 182 consumes 12 gph in cruise

My observations and experiences.
  #16  
Old June 29th 04, 04:21 PM
C J Campbell
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"Brenor Brophy" wrote in message
m...
A complex (land) plane has to have retractable gear AND flaps AND a

constant
speed prop. If any one is missing then its not a complex plane. So a 172RG
would NOT be a complex plane because it has a fixed pitch prop.


The 172RG has a constant speed prop. It is a complex airplane.


  #17  
Old June 29th 04, 06:03 PM
Newps
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"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:hL6Ec.5949$z81.3182@fed1read01...
I was thinking the C172RG I used to fly had a controllable prop... mmmm

yep... sure enough.. here's the old UND check list complete with Prop

cycles
on the before takeoff checks.. and MP/RPM for cruise settings.. I can't
find the reference, but it might have been 180HP..

so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass.. it

was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..


I was at GFK when UND still had the Cessna's. What years were you there?



  #18  
Old June 29th 04, 06:09 PM
Newps
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"EDR" wrote in message
...

For off airport/non-paved surface operations, the 182 will be less
succeptible to FOD damage (high wing and higher horizontal stabilizer)


Especially as you run your wings thru the bushes as you taxi in on some two
track road to a cabin. The 182 lets you skim thru the tops, the Cherokee
make you tear up the wing.


Then again, the Cherokee Six has 300 higher gross (3400 lbs vice 3100
lbs)


Gross is irrelavant. You want the lowest gross available with the highest
HP available. What you really want is the highest useful load. That 3100
gross 182 is a dog. I have a 182 with a 2800 gross which will vastly
outperform a newer 182 with the higher gross weights. Has to. Same
horsepower lifting less weight.



  #19  
Old June 29th 04, 11:05 PM
Matt Whiting
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10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:


:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),



What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?


For me it was a couple of patterns in my Skylane.


Matt

  #20  
Old June 30th 04, 12:17 AM
BTIZ
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so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass.. it
was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..


I was at GFK when UND still had the Cessna's. What years were you there?


I was in GFK.. actually KRDR... from 1988-1991. The local FBO would lease
out the UND Cutlass's to renter pilots.. just schedule one and the FBO would
make sure there was one on his ramp from UND. It was a nice plane.. for a
172.. and it had the RNAV system in it.

BT


 




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