ATC question

On Apr 16, 9:23 pm, Newps wrote:

Every single tower has a radar facility to provide approach services,


How do you know that?

On Apr 16, 9:33 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

Nobody is worried about it, mostly wondering if there was some new rule
or regulation that we had missed. I'd never heard of such a situation
before. I'd like to fly in there with my crusty old primary instructor.
He didn't care much for controllers and loved to mix it up with the
ones that got testy. :-)

I'm surprised he never got busted, but then he was a DE, FAA safety
counselor and new most of the state and federal aviation folks pretty
well so I'm guessing any complaints that came in got file 13 treatment.


What did your crusty old primary instructor do that might warrant
being busted?

On Apr 16, 9:36 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:

Can they, at their discretion, decide to refuse service to whomever they
choose?


No, they must have justification.

Come on guys, get real... The controller may refuse entry to a calling
aircraft only for valid operational reasons.. He is accountable for
his every word and decision (controllers exist in a fishbowl)... If
he refuses entry without a valid reason there will be questions and
the tapes will be reviewed - especially if there is a formal
complaint...

If a controller simply refuses entry to his airspace without any hint
as to when he can accomodate you, ask why and for how long... His
transmissions are recorded (as are yours so think before flying off at
the mouth)... He may have a runway blocked or a lost aircraft,
military activity in his airspace, Airforce One might be in the
pattern, lots of things could be going on... This can be on other
frequencies, so silence doesn't mean that he isn't really busy...
There may be things going on he can't say over the air...
If you feel the answers are unsatisfactory ask the telephone number
for the facility supervisor... Just remember the squeaky wheel will
get attention also...

denny

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
On Apr 16, 8:13 pm, Dave S wrote:
As for what authority do they have... pretty much if you want to land at
a Class D, you have to be in communication with them to be in their
airspace. You can be denied entry. The Controller does not have to
justify it, and their decision is final as far that that moment is
concerned.


Upon what do you base your assertion that the tower controller needs
no justification to deny entry to Class D airspace?

I'm curious: By what point in time is the controller compelled to provide
justification for a denied entry?

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .

I'm curious: By what point in time is the controller compelled to provide
justification for a denied entry?


FAAO 7110.65 does not require the controller to state the justification at
all.

"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...

It has not been proven that the controller made a unilateral decision
here. If they have an operating practice that says "contact approach
first" they can fall back on that practice and choose not to make an
"exception".


I thoroughly examined the Reading SOP, they have no operating practice that
says "contact approach first".



Newps is right. Any local controller COULD accept a pop up.
But are they required to?


Pop up?



Again.. if the arrival procedures are described
on the ATIS, your friend has nobody to be miffed at but himself, for not
being able to "make himself aware of all pertinent information regarding
his flight".


The SOP calls for the ATIS to state that Basic Radar Services are available,
nothing beyond that.



I've known of two separate instances in my short stint in flying where
someone didn't want to talk to approach, and was directed to contact
approach for sequencing. One was into Savannah, the other Beaumont.
Neither was the exact type of airport described by the original poster,
but that was how they operated.

I remember explicitly Savannah approach telling someone who was VFR
inbound, who didn't want to take sequencing vectors VFR and was going to
go "around" to tower "Sir, if you are landing at Savannah, you will be
going through me" Given the exchange, that actually was pretty direct and
effective.


Savannah has Class C airspace, sequencing of VFR arrivals is a Class C
service. Reading provides Basic Radar Service which does not include
sequencing of VFR arrivals.

On Apr 17, 1:07 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Savannah has Class C airspace, sequencing of VFR arrivals is a Class C
service. Reading provides Basic Radar Service which does not include
sequencing of VFR arrivals.

And yet, the OP is correct that in actual practice, Reading Tower will
regularly deny class D services to inbound aircraft who have not been
sequenced by approach.

"ZikZak" wrote in message
oups.com...

And yet, the OP is correct that in actual practice, Reading Tower will
regularly deny class D services to inbound aircraft who have not been
sequenced by approach.


And yet, they are incorrect when they do that.

On Apr 17, 1:48 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
"ZikZak" wrote in message

oups.com...



And yet, the OP is correct that in actual practice, Reading Tower will
regularly deny class D services to inbound aircraft who have not been
sequenced by approach.

And yet, they are incorrect when they do that.

Absolutely they are. I think that is the point of the thread.

The question really is: who to complain to in order to actually
resolve the situation?