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Emergency landing theoretical



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 11th 06, 06:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical


Question for you guys:

I fly out of Troutdale, Oregon (KTTD) which is at the mouth of the Columbia
River Gorge. Because of sheer cliffs, tunnels, things like that, if I had
to make an emergency landing in a single engine aircraft, in some stretches
it would be treacherous or impossible to land on the road.

As a boater, however, I'm familiar with the river charts and know that much
of it is only 2 to 4 feet deep. So if I knew, reasonably, that I could
ditch very shallow water, would that be a viable emergency landing plan as
opposed to a winding and potentially busy freeway with a 700' cliff on one
side?

Different in high wing verses low wing?

-c


  #2  
Old May 11th 06, 07:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

In article ,
"gatt" wrote:

Question for you guys:

I fly out of Troutdale, Oregon (KTTD) which is at the mouth of the Columbia
River Gorge. Because of sheer cliffs, tunnels, things like that, if I had
to make an emergency landing in a single engine aircraft, in some stretches
it would be treacherous or impossible to land on the road.

As a boater, however, I'm familiar with the river charts and know that much
of it is only 2 to 4 feet deep. So if I knew, reasonably, that I could
ditch very shallow water, would that be a viable emergency landing plan as
opposed to a winding and potentially busy freeway with a 700' cliff on one
side?

Different in high wing verses low wing?



High wing you may end up "floating" under water where with a low wing
you'll be above the surface probably.

I recommend that you take a course in aircraft survival that lets you do
the "dilbert dunker" thing. Get some practical experience escaping from
an aircraft in the water...it may save your life.
  #3  
Old May 11th 06, 08:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

Gatt
I know the area fairly well.... If you had an engine failure I'd sure
opt for the upstream landing as near the shore as possible. The
problem, as you probably know, is all the submerged pilings from docks,
wharves, etc. And, the current is ferocious so I'd damned sure want to
be close to the beach, such as it is. Now, if you could make it to the
freeway or interstate? Its a crap shoot. I often wonder about the
options and what I'd do but until it happens you can only speculate and
try to play, "What if....."
If you are doing that much, you are way ahead of the game and will be
an interesting story on "News At 9" instead of a statistic with NTSB.
Hope you never have to make that choice!
Cheers and fly safe

  #4  
Old May 11th 06, 09:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical


"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote

opt for the upstream landing


Why upstream? Seems to me that it would be better to land with the waves
and current. Less deceleration, and all.
--
Jim in NC


  #5  
Old May 11th 06, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

Jim
Think of ground speed? Whats gonna happen when you finally settle to a
stop and the current takes over?

  #6  
Old May 11th 06, 11:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical


"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message

Jim
Think of ground speed? Whats gonna happen when you finally settle to a
stop and the current takes over?



Interesting stuff. In the area I'm talking about the water is very shallow
(2'-4') and there's almost no current. There IS the ever-present
possibility of 10-50mph wind.

(Different story in the channel, but I wouldn't land there.)

-c


  #7  
Old May 12th 06, 02:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical


"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim
Think of ground speed? Whats gonna happen when you finally settle to a
stop and the current takes over?


Within about 5 seconds of stopping in the water, you will be going the same
relative ground speed, (down stream) no matter which way you land. A few
knots, of drifting current speed, hitting a sudden stop on land is not going
to hurt very much.

If you are talking about decelerating from 60 knots, landing with the
current of 5 knots means you are only touching down at 55 knots. Landing
against the current means you are touching down at 65 knots. That 10 knots
sounds significant, to me.

This is all saying that you are not going to hit any land while you are
still slowing down, which is the only way I can figure your point means
anything. If that is it, I'll be trying really hard not to hit any land
until I am stopped.

What am I missing, that someone else far smarter than me has already figured
out? Id doesn't make sense to me.

All in all, wind speed and direction would be the most important factor, I
would think.
--
Jim in NC


  #8  
Old May 12th 06, 02:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

You will probably flip over. If the doors are closed you wont be able
to open them until the plane fills with water. I hope you have shoulder
harnesses. Land downstream if possible. This will minimize speed over
the water.

  #9  
Old May 12th 06, 07:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
Within about 5 seconds of stopping in the water, you will be going the
same relative ground speed, (down stream) no matter which way you land. A
few knots, of drifting current speed, hitting a sudden stop on land is not
going to hurt very much.

If you are talking about decelerating from 60 knots, landing with the
current of 5 knots means you are only touching down at 55 knots. Landing
against the current means you are touching down at 65 knots. That 10
knots sounds significant, to me.


It is, and in many cases the current is more than 5 knots, making an even
bigger difference.

Your analysis is correct, and barring any other issues, downstream is better
than upstream.

Of course, the chance of a messy landing is significant in any case. But
you want to give yourself the least chance of a messy landing, and lowest
water speed is the way to go for that (ie, downstream).

The situation in this particular instance may warrant a different decision,
of course. Since there's a particular location from which the original
poster is departing, and since the river has a specific configuration both
upstream and downstream from that location, and since there may be a more
desirable ditching area upstream than downstream, it's entirely possible
that in that situation specifically, upstream is preferable.

Pete


  #10  
Old May 12th 06, 12:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Emergency landing theoretical

Jim
An important factor is the wind in the gorge nearly always is blowing
east to west and it happens to be with the water current too. Not
uncommon for the winds to be blowing there in excess of 50 knots. If I
recall, the max winds recorded there are well in excess of 100 mph!
I landed seaplanes a number of times on rivers, mainly the Mississippi
which in many ways reminds me of the Columbia. I've lived on the shores
of both and often thought of the way I'd make an emergency landing to
the water. Includes rivers, lakes, and ocean. Since each situation is
so different its nearly impossible to say it should be done one way or
other.

 




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