O2, Question for medics.

On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Dan, 5J

I too live where we might not see a neighbor for weeks. However, Amazon will gladly deliver your own coronavirus to your door within or less than 24hrs. In spite of the article's headline, read down: the virus can stick to surfaces and last for that time period (though rather poorly). Delivery companies have largely suspended the signature requirement, but assume he/she has handled the package quite recently. Sometimes you just can't hide from trouble!

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2862947001

Hey, maybe the porch pirates will take a vacation.Â* Or get a dose.

Thanks for the reminder, I'll leave packages on the porch for a couple
of days.Â* I can count the times my door bell has rung during the past 10
years on both hands.

On 3/21/2020 2:20 PM, Duster wrote:
On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Dan, 5J
I too live where we might not see a neighbor for weeks. However, Amazon will gladly deliver your own coronavirus to your door within or less than 24hrs. In spite of the article's headline, read down: the virus can stick to surfaces and last for that time period (though rather poorly). Delivery companies have largely suspended the signature requirement, but assume he/she has handled the package quite recently. Sometimes you just can't hide from trouble!

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2862947001

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Dan, 5J

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 4:35:27 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
A pulse-oximeter quantifies pulmonary function.

What is the O2 saturation that should trigger a trip to the E-room?

It depends. For normal healthy people anything in the low 90s is abnormal and needs to be evaluated. However, for someone with COPD, who normally lives in the upper 80s to low 90s, it could be normal to have an O2sat of 89%.

If you are feeling bad and your O2 sat is in the low 90s (90-93%), then get checked. If you aren't sure, get checked. It's better to be safe than sorry.

On Friday, March 20, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, FZ wrote:
There are a few hundred oxygen masks and O2 tanks in a gliding community. Are those of any potential use in a CronaVirus emergency?

The short answer is no. Oxygen delivery to the tissues is a result of a complex interaction of the circulatory and respiratory systems. In the case of the Corona virus, the problem is pneumonia which leads to abnormalities in the perfusion/ventilation ratio which no amount of oxygen can correct. Mechanical ventilation and other supportive measures are required.
As aside, I would also note that pulse oximeters are great but they are not infallible. There are many reasons why you might get an incorrect reading, especially in the less expensive models.

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 7:19:53 AM UTC+13, BobWa43 wrote:

As aside, I would also note that pulse oximeters are great but they are not infallible. There are many reasons why you might get an incorrect reading, especially in the less expensive models.

Dr. Dan pointed out in his SoarRX article a few years ago that pulse oximeters are designed to be used sitting quietly in a chair, indoors and on the ground. Sitting in a glider in turbulence, a bit cold, and in bright sunshine is a rather different challenge for a device that relies on light transmission through the finger.

A pulse oximeter is quite reliable at cold altitudes in turbulence. It does not measure oxygen or hypoxia, but rather some molecule bound to hemoglobin that changes light absorption from 2 different LEDs (one IR, one red). Many units can't differentiate between wavelength absorp of bound carbon monoxide or oxygen, so you could get a reading of 98% but still have carbon monoxide poisoning (there are CO oximeters available) or hypoxemia. In any case, we've gotten off message. If you have a pulse oximeter, you can use it to assist your physician in determining if you should get tested for coronavirus or be hospitalized. When you have real data (temperature, low PO reading) rather than subjectively (under)-reported symptoms, that will almost surely get their attention....it's evidence. If you have minimal training, buy/borrow a cheap stethoscope or amped microphone and have someone listen for "crackling" sounds over both lungs from the back. Fluid buildup sounds like when you scratch your scalp on the hair line. I'll make you a deal; if you can't afford a basic PO ($8-$30), are 70 yrs old or care for such, I will commit to deliver at least 5 units (1/ea) to those making a request. That includes outside North America if AmazonGlobe-worthy. PM me


Someone in respiratory distress usually has impaired breathing, so a nose cannula might not be as helpful as a face mask to get them more oxygen. What might be more helpful is to loan your pulse oximeter to those at higher risk. This would help them decide if they should seek medical treatment, e.g., when ox sat falls below 90% (a common threshold to receive resp support is 88%). The catch is (no pun intended) a hospital is a good place to get pneumonia if you don't already have it.
Duster

You, Sir, are a hero!

I have both a pulse oximeter and a stethoscope and almost 72 years old,
but thanks for the offer!

On 3/23/2020 10:44 AM, Duster wrote:
A pulse oximeter is quite reliable at cold altitudes in turbulence. It does not measure oxygen or hypoxia, but rather some molecule bound to hemoglobin that changes light absorption from 2 different LEDs (one IR, one red). Many units can't differentiate between wavelength absorp of bound carbon monoxide or oxygen, so you could get a reading of 98% but still have carbon monoxide poisoning (there are CO oximeters available) or hypoxemia. In any case, we've gotten off message. If you have a pulse oximeter, you can use it to assist your physician in determining if you should get tested for coronavirus or be hospitalized. When you have real data (temperature, low PO reading) rather than subjectively (under)-reported symptoms, that will almost surely get their attention....it's evidence. If you have minimal training, buy/borrow a cheap stethoscope or amped microphone and have someone listen for "crackling" sounds over both lungs from the back. Fluid buildup sounds like when you scratch your scalp on the hair line. I'll make you a deal; if you can't afford a basic PO ($8-$30), are 70 yrs old or care for such, I will commit to deliver at least 5 units (1/ea) to those making a request. That includes outside North America if AmazonGlobe-worthy. PM me


Someone in respiratory distress usually has impaired breathing, so a nose cannula might not be as helpful as a face mask to get them more oxygen. What might be more helpful is to loan your pulse oximeter to those at higher risk. This would help them decide if they should seek medical treatment, e.g., when ox sat falls below 90% (a common threshold to receive resp support is 88%). The catch is (no pun intended) a hospital is a good place to get pneumonia if you don't already have it.
Duster

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Dan, 5J

This link

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 12:44:30 PM UTC-4, Duster wrote:
A pulse oximeter is quite reliable at cold altitudes in turbulence.

Another factor to ponder is the effect of bright sunshine on a device that depends on a red LED.

https://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring...-p18-20-22.pdf


On the other hand, pulse oximeter ARE designed to work indoors sitting quietly in a chair or resting in bed.

On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 13:57:46 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

On the other hand, pulse oximeter ARE designed to work indoors sitting
quietly in a chair or resting in bed.

What about units such as those sold by https://www.welluehealth.com/
like their Sleep-U with the electronics on a wrist-band with the sensor
clipping on a finger at the end of a flying lead or the Contec CMS50F,
where the entire unit is on your wrist.

Sure, the Sleep-U is probably unsuitable, though I like its physical
setup, which is unlikely to get in the way in the air, while the Contec
unit advertises itself as suitable for sports use, though not while
exercising, but that probably isn't a problem for us.

I'm curious about the medical-grade devices because I bought one of the
El-cheapo ($25) Anapulse units 4 years ago before a trip to Scotland in
search of wave, which never materialised. Had me doubts about it from the
start because its a bulky *******, but seemed work OK when I bought it.

I put new batteries in recently to see if it still worked. Turns out that
it detects my pulse, but seems to have entirely lost its ability to
measure O2 percentage - nothing on the display works apart from the
flashing pulse...pulse... bar graph. No O2 percentage or pulse rate are
shown. IOW its now a piece of junk.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org