NTSB Accidents & Incidents

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

I still think this satisfies the "substantial damage" portion of 830.
What is not substantial when the airframe is disgarded?

Disgarded???

Discarded. Hey, it was late when I typed that!

john smith wrote:
In article v5Pxi.1658$6h3.1418@trndny05,
"Mike Isaksen" wrote:

N377CT
The pilot stalled it 12 feet above the runway and dropped it in,
breaking the landing gear off. Monday, July 24, ~ 10:30 AM CDT.
The folks in the CT told me they were going to strip everything out of
it and reinstall them in new airframe.
OK,... I'm having a dejavu moment here. At this summer's AOPA open house I
talked with a Pete K from JabiruUSA about their new LSA, and as part of the
sales pitch he does a little "salesman type trash talking" about the CTSW
next door. Mentions that he's on the ASTM commitee and that some of the EURO
companies may have played a little loose with the numbers when they upped
the GW from Euro-Microlight to US-LSA. He specifically told me to keep an
eye out for landing accidents. Now this is the second CT incident I hear
about this summer, and I personally saw the results of an Evektor prop
strike at KHWV.

Anyone else notice any pattern forming? I really think the LSA is the future
of recreational aviation so I'm hoping not.

I wouldn't claim any pattern.
The guy stalled it 12 feet off the deck.
Tower had asked him to extend farther down the runway. Instead of adding
power, he pulled back on the stick.

I've got 160 CTSW landings and about 60 CTSW
hours in my logbook. I will absolutely agree
that it is not the easiest plane to land,
particularly if the plane is light and it's
hot and gusty.

A CT approach should be flown at between 55
and 60 knots. At 15 feet, you'd start to
feel ground effect and stall would be under
40 knots. That's a plenty safe margin as
far as the design goes. There is no stall
horn on the CT and I was trained to be aware
of lack of control pressure, as well as
airspeed, to warn of an impending stall.

So yeah, stalling it 12 feet off the deck
is a pilot error, not a bad landing.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:47:17 -0400, john smith
wrote:

In article v5Pxi.1658$6h3.1418@trndny05,
"Mike Isaksen" wrote:

N377CT
The pilot stalled it 12 feet above the runway and dropped it in,
breaking the landing gear off. Monday, July 24, ~ 10:30 AM CDT.
The folks in the CT told me they were going to strip everything out of
it and reinstall them in new airframe.


OK,... I'm having a dejavu moment here. At this summer's AOPA open house I
talked with a Pete K from JabiruUSA about their new LSA, and as part of the
sales pitch he does a little "salesman type trash talking" about the CTSW
next door. Mentions that he's on the ASTM commitee and that some of the EURO
companies may have played a little loose with the numbers when they upped
the GW from Euro-Microlight to US-LSA. He specifically told me to keep an
eye out for landing accidents. Now this is the second CT incident I hear
about this summer, and I personally saw the results of an Evektor prop
strike at KHWV.

Anyone else notice any pattern forming? I really think the LSA is the future
of recreational aviation so I'm hoping not.

I wouldn't claim any pattern.
The guy stalled it 12 feet off the deck.
Tower had asked him to extend farther down the runway. Instead of adding
power, he pulled back on the stick.

I still think this satisfies the "substantial damage" portion of 830.
What is not substantial when the airframe is disgarded?

When the airframe is so old the parts are woth more installed on
another.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?

Jim Stewart wrote

Larry Dighera wrote:

Jim Stewart wrote
There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?

No...A stall warning system is only required if it is found
that there in insufficient natural stall warning via airframe
buffet or other natural phenomena.

Bob Moore

Jim Stewart wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?


No, some have stall lights and some have nothing at all.

Matt

In article ,
Jim Stewart wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?

A 7AC Champ doesn't have any stall warning device.

john smith wrote:
In article ,
Jim Stewart wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT
Why?
I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?

A 7AC Champ doesn't have any stall warning device.

Sure it does. It is called a wing.

Matt

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:14:09 -0400, john smith wrote:

In article ,
Jim Stewart wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:08:57 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote in :

There is no stall horn on the CT

Why?

I dunno. Do all planes have stall horns
except the CT?

A 7AC Champ doesn't have any stall warning device.

Its Type Certificate pre-dates the period when stall warning devices were
required.

The ASTM standard that governs LSA certification does not require stall warning
devices.

Ron Wanttaja