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#11
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Well, what's about all the "high-landers" who often live at ore above
8K? ;-) (I live above 7K year round for example) I would guess that goes with Mike's obervation. One adapts to high altitudes but it takes a day or two (or three). For short trips up one may end up hypoxic. What I still have to find out (in an pressure chamber) where my limits would be. Chris PP-ASEL, Glider New Mexico Blanche wrote: Cub Driver wrote: On 6 Nov 2004 19:20:43 -0800, (PaulH) wrote: I took my Arrow up to 10,500 today I have been skiing at Ajax (Aspen Mountain) on a regular basis for nearly forty years and have never noticed any effect on mental acuity at 11,000 feet. Of course it may be that skiers are mentally inacute to begin with. But Dan, we *start* at 5K+ MSL! I ski Loveland (10-11K) all the time with no problems. But remember, we're up and down within 15-30 min (depending on the lift lines and being amazed at where we live). Flying is something else -- we stay up there for long periods of time. My body prefers O2 any time I've over 8K MSL for more than an hour. |
#12
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At higher altitudes (Flight Levels) even 100% O2 is not sufficient. It must
be delivered under pressure through a secure O2 mask. -- Darrell R. Schmidt B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/ - "PaulH" wrote in message om... I took my Arrow up to 10,500 today to check out my fingertip O2 measuring device. I can maintain 90-93% saturation with deep breathing and no supplemental O2. Anybody know what the minimum safe level is for daytime? I guess it might be cumulative, i.e. the longer you go at 92% the less safe it is? Dropped down to about 88% when I got distracted with some cockpit chores and started normal sea level breathing. |
#13
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Cub Driver wrote:
I have been skiing at Ajax (Aspen Mountain) on a regular basis for nearly forty years and have never noticed any effect on mental acuity at 11,000 feet. It is the very nature of hypoxia that you don't recognize it yourself. Actually, this is the point which makes it so dangerous. I'm somewhat shocked that a pilot wouldn't know this. Of course it may be that skiers are mentally inacute to begin with. One thing is to walk around (or ski around or climb around, for that matter). It's a very different thing to work mentally, as is piloting. Stefan |
#14
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PaulH wrote:
I took my Arrow up to 10,500 today to check out my fingertip O2 measuring device. I can maintain 90-93% saturation with deep breathing and no supplemental O2. Anybody know what the minimum safe level is for daytime? I guess it might be cumulative, i.e. the longer you go at 92% the less safe it is? Dropped down to about 88% when I got distracted with some cockpit chores and started normal sea level breathing. Once your oxygen saturation gets to about 90% you are at a point where any further decrease in ambient oxygen pressure can cause a big drop in the saturation. So, for instance, a decrease in atmospheric pressure might significantly decrease the amount of oxygen in your blood. For this reason, people usually talk about a saturation of 90% as the minimum safe level. However, for a healthy person at rest, an oxygen saturation in the mid 80s is likely to be adequate for most people to feel okay and think normally. (That is not to say that it's a good idea while flying to intentionally let it get that low rather than use supplemental oxygen.) In contrast, I'm not so comfortable with "deep breathing" to maintain a higher oxygen saturation. In accomplishing this, you are almost certainly decreasing the carbon dioxide in your blood, and that can make you dizzy, lightheaded, anxious, and/or confused. -- David Rind |
#15
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:22:54 GMT, "Viperdoc" wrote in :: On a recent trip at 10,000 feet I felt bad after around three hours, and checked my sat, which was in the low 80's. This happened to me after about 3-1/2 hours at 12,500'; I felt okay, but was apparently impaired. ...snip... Wasn't that borderline violation of the FARs 91.211? (30 mins above 12,500 pressure altitude) .... and if the altimeter setting for more than 30 minutes of the route was below 29.92, then it WAS violation..., no??? In Canada it would be violation for sure, cause they want Oxygen for the crew if more that 30 mins above pressure Altitude 10,000..... |
#16
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"Viperdoc" wrote in message ... In general for a patient in a hospital we try to keep the O2 sat at or above 92%, and will give supplemental oxygen if it falls below. On a recent trip at 10,000 feet I felt bad after around three hours, and checked my sat, which was in the low 80's. My eight year old son complained of a headache and nausea, and after putting on the oxygen we both felt a lot better as our sats returned to the 90's. A couple years ago, my family went to Quito. The elevation there is around 2 miles high. I am not a great physical specimen, and did not have any problems with feeling bad. You did have to remember not to make too long of a sentence without breathing, and to walk instead of running, like up stairs. One thing was interesting, was that as we were about to land, the airliner cabin's altitude went up, instead of down! Ever seen Quito's airport? It is literally in the middle of the city, with apartment buildings and such right up to the fence, and the fence is close to the runway. One runway, because it is in a narrow valley. Arrivals and departures are not straight in, and have to curve about in the valley as they descend or climb. Not for the faint of heart. We heard you had to be a captain for the airline on different routes for 5 years, then fly as 1st officer on the Quito run for 2 years before you are allowed to command a flight in there. With good reason. -- Jim in NC --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 |
#17
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:58:17 -0500, "Icebound"
wrote: Wasn't that borderline violation of the FARs 91.211? (30 mins above 12,500 pressure altitude) What is a "borderline violation"? Is the same as almost but not quite contrary to the regulations? If so, then you've answered your question. ... and if the altimeter setting for more than 30 minutes of the route was below 29.92, then it WAS violation..., no??? The regulation is pretty clear in stating that the relevant altitude is "pressure" altitude. In Canada it would be violation for sure, cause they want Oxygen for the crew if more that 30 mins above pressure Altitude 10,000..... Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#18
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:54:42 -0500, Ron Rosenfeld
wrote: until they were returned to sea level pressure and could view what they had written. Of course, returning to standard pressure at Aspen means 8,000 feet. Perhaps we are off the wall the whole time? Still, I've never had a waiter complain that I was miscalculating the tip. Perhaps I've been overtipping? It seems unlikely: my wife has never complained. Seriously, 11,000 feet is not a problem unless you have medical problems. People get altitude *sickness* while skiing at high altitudes; they might be insomniac; they get dehydrated, especially if they booze it up; and sometimes they hyperventilate. (One of the ski patrol tricks with ailing turkeys is to have them breath into a paper bag, to *cut down* on their oxygen intake.) Loveland Pass, west of Denver, was higher than 10,000 feet, and carried all traffic before the I-70 tunnel was built. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com the blog www.danford.net |
#19
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In contrast, I'm not so comfortable with "deep breathing" to maintain a higher oxygen saturation. In accomplishing this, you are almost certainly decreasing the carbon dioxide in your blood, and that can make you dizzy, lightheaded, anxious, and/or confused. Thanks. That's a good description of what happens to tourist skiers when they begin to hyperventilate at high altitudes. (It was my impression though that they got there by panting rather than by taking deep, measured breaths.) I am off to Aspen next month. I'm going to try to forget this thread. It's not good to be self-concious about one's breathing! all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com the blog www.danford.net |
#20
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Cub Driver wrote:
they booze it up; and sometimes they hyperventilate. (One of the ski patrol tricks with ailing turkeys is to have them breath into a paper bag, to *cut down* on their oxygen intake.) Wrong again. The idea of this trick is to keep the CO2 level up. Stefan |
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