It only takes one...

BT wrote:
Ahh... cessna on the extended downwind.. if you are planning to log
cross country on this pattern, do you mind if I make a tight pattern
and get on the ground... great... thanks..



I had an occassion where I entered downwind, had already passed the field,
only other traffic was a guy still several miles out on a straight in final,
and the tower cleared me for immediate landing, which was no problem in a
150, so I turned base - the guy still miles out really got his shorts
bunched up and started screaming that someone had cut in front of him!!!!!
Tower told him to cool it, there was more than adequate spacing.. d:-))

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
On 5/1/2007 11:12:37 PM, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:

I'm not arguing with the general point of your posting but I will take a
poke at your assertion about being outside of gliding range of the field.

Isn't this guideline based on the theory that there is a higher chance of
engine failure during changes in power settings? A reduction of power
while
entering the pattern, I recall reading, presents a statistically higher
chance of engine failure than while at cruise.


Might be an urban legend, but that's what I was taught back in the 70s.

I screwed up a pattern real good once. I didn't then proceed to
screw everyone over, though.

It's the gift that keeps giving, too. Like a car accident. Once
the accident is cleared up, traffic is still messed up for hours
afterward.

I felt so bad.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
You're right, but the problem with flying doofi is that we (you, I, and
everyone else) *expect* other pilots to act in a "normal" manner. If a guy
radios that he's gonna extend his downwind, we understand. But nobody
expects a downwind extended by 2 miles. I'm sure everyone in tonight's
pattern expected the guy to turn base ANY SECOND once he was a half mile
beyond the normal pattern, and as the downwind extended and extended, I'd
bet everyone behind the first guy was wondering.... What the heck is that
guy doing???

Oh man that would suck. I could totally see myself following someone
that perhaps decided to abandon his plans and depart on the downwind
and not announce his intentions. Merrily flying along wondering what
the hell am I doing here???

Viperdoc wrote:

So, how about thinking about the people behind you as well as in front of
you in the pattern?


And please extend this thinking to the drive home or to the airstrip.

Or grocery store, or work...

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Long story short, the guy flew a normal downwind plus 2.5 miles, and his
downwind was literally a mile wide to boot...

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I followed
with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the traffic
pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to let things
correct themselves.

This has recently become a significant pet peave of mine. There are a
fairly large number of inexperienced private pilots at my airport, who
are all flying these ridiculously wide patterns. It seems to be the
"fault" of our one particular old flight instructor. All of his
students seem to do this, and it drives me crazy. He apparently flew
WWII transport size aircraft, so that may explain it. That Avweb
article that was cited was really good. I think I'll print a few copies
and leave it around the airport.

--- Jay

--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

In article ,
"Viperdoc" wrote:

Flying the pattern also means understanding who's ahead or behind you. It's
unrealistic to expect a G-V fly a pattern behind a guy in a 150.

Both of my planes have a difficult time flying a pattern with a 150- I need
to be at least at 100, and preferably 120k. Otherwise I'll be hanging on the
prop in slow flight, and SOL if the engine quits, or in the other case, well
below Vyse if an engine quits. Neither is a good situation.

Yet, flying a wider and faster pattern commensurate with the safer speeds
often leads me to be either cut off, or having to do S turns for the 150
pilot doing a five mile 65K final.

The same guy who flies the 5 mile final also tends to use all of the 5500
foot runway to turn off as a matter of convenience.

So, how about thinking about the people behind you as well as in front of
you in the pattern?


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney in,
spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided to take
exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the center of
our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right, please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he decided
to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it up, applied
climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The sound of 2
R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:14 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney in,
spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided to take
exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the center of
our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right, please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he decided
to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it up, applied
climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The sound of 2
R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

Are you able to quote a specific regulation that prevents you from
landing behind the aircraft in these situations?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:14 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney
in, spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided
to take exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the
center of our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right,
please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he
decided to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it
up, applied climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The
sound of 2 R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

Are you able to quote a specific regulation that prevents you from
landing behind the aircraft in these situations?

The laws of physics might come into play.

On Wed, 2 May 2007 13:14:21 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:14 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney
in, spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided
to take exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the
center of our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right,
please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he
decided to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it
up, applied climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The
sound of 2 R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

Are you able to quote a specific regulation that prevents you from
landing behind the aircraft in these situations?

The laws of physics might come into play.


That's a matter of pilot judgment, isn't it?