A proposal to increase membership, cross-country pilots, competitors,and world champions (USA).

Why must every glider pilot be forced to become a cross country
soaring and racing pilot.

Many see this and say that is not for me I cannot afford that
ship, that time that commitment. YOU simply put then off.

Why not teach and sell the joys of soaring.

Once hooked THEN teach them to expand their horizons.

The more members you get the more will become the XC pilots
of the future, the stalwarts of the club, the instructors and the
backbone of the movement.

A few cheaper to fly club aircraft will give many the pleasure of
soaring flight. A winch launch cuts the cost further......!

As a percentage of national membership how many race and
how many do extended cross country flying yet this is pushed as
the ultimate goal of our sport.

Food for thought



At 03:28 21 August 2014, Bill D wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:09:31 PM UTC-6, Craig R.
wrote:
There has been a lot of good dialog on developing cross
country pilots (=
=3D private ship owners) with perhaps a small percentage of
those becoming
=
competition pilots.=20
=20
However, when I look at the basics, the outlook is pretty
dismal. To me,
=
the bottom line is lack of personal income for the bulk of
Americans.=20
=20
It was stated earlier "Money is not the issue. People have
plenty of
cash=
to spend on recreation and discretionary activities".=20
=20
The facts are quite the opposite. "Americans tend to think of
their
middl=
e class as being the richest in the world, but it turns out, in
terms of
we=
alth, they rank fairly low among major industrialized
countries," said
Edwa=
rd Wolff, a New York University economics professor who
studies net
worth."=
=20
=20
Median net worth for middle class Americans is
approximately $45,000. We
=
rank 19th in the world. If you look at all Americans, the
number is
$301,00=
0 (4th). This number is highly skewed because of the very to
ultra rich
(Bi=
ll Gates types). Disposable income is dandy for the rich, but
not so
wonder=
ful for the middle class and below.=20
=20

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/11/news/economy/middle-
class-wealth/?iid=3DE=
L
=20
In addition, soaring in the US is not directly funded by our
government.
=
As many know, some European countries have varying
degrees of government
su=
pport to reduce their pilot's cost.=20
=20
So if we can agree that most middle (and poorer) class
Americans won't /
=
can't spend the money necessary to join the ranks of cross
country /
racing=
glider pilots (this is an expensive sport!), we are left with the
potentia=
l pilot pool of wealthy Americans. That is a much smaller
number to work
wi=
th.=20
=20
So who are we marketing our sport to? The posts above
seem to target
midd=
le class (and above) younger adults. With financial and time
limitations
mo=
st young adults deal with, these factors =3D small numbers.
And as we have
=
seen, many new pilots toss in the towel pretty quickly to
pursue other
acti=
vities.=20
=20
So what do we do to expand our pilot pool? John Cochrane's
point of
limit=
ing the turnover of current pilots seems to me to be the best
method to
inc=
rease the number of glider pilots. We keep working the front
end as best
we=
can and pull out all the stops to reduce the shrink. Slow
growth is not
se=
xy, but workable.




If the proposal is to enlist 20% of the population, then class
economics
is=
an issue but we are at most .006% of the population. That's
way too tiny
=
a number to be talking about the general economy. If we
suddenly got
.0003=
% of the population interested in learning to fly gliders, it
would
overwhe=
lm our training capacity but it would turn the growth picture
around. =20

Remember, soaring began in the US during the Great
Depression. All we
need=
is a few thousand new people - and they are out there waiting
to be
found.=
I think the problem is entirely our own pessimism.

On 2014-08-21 09:14:20 +0000, Dave Martin said:

Why must every glider pilot be forced to become a cross country
soaring and racing pilot.

Telling everyone they should be doing 300 km flights is equally as
silly as forbidding them to go more than 5 miles from the field.

Find known good landout sites every 10 miles or so around the field,
document them, program them into the GPSs in the club ships, take
people to see them from the ground, hold "away" days at any big enough
for towing out of and with a friendly landowner.

And when a novice starting to spread her wings actually lands in one,
CONGRATULATE HER on her good decision not to try to get home at all
costs.

Andy Gough: thank you for the translation :-)
You got the gist of the message out clear.

First, the official contact:
Karkonoskie Stowarzyszenie Szybowcowe
ul DÅ‚uga 61
58-521 Jeżów Sudecki
Poland


http://www.kssjezow.pl/pl/
(there is an English version there as well, but Polish is current)

I will edit/translate the syllabus/description of one of the past camps and post it here ASAP (as requested by Kevin). All specific questions might be best answered at the address listed above, I am writing this (authorized) post as one of community members benefiting from KSS activity, but I will try to get here directly as much info and feedback as possible. This (KSS) initiative works, I have seen it firsthand.

Some of (my own) comments:

There seem to be a perception in the US of a big difference/barrier between local and XC flight. This is how I read posts here. But another perception is possible. Here in Poland one CANNOT get license without doing at least one short XC. Students do them, it is seen as normal (I do not claim casual, students and instructors prepare seriously). But there is no perception "local is fun, XC is hard work". I repeat, no perception barrier. Student train (syllabus) for outfield landings, precision landings, down/cross wind landings, from above high obstacle landings etc. Students outland moderately often (this is considered error given small distances involved, but accepted grudgingly, with everybody respecting the "1000ft? - LAND!" rule). Ships sometimes get damaged, injuries are rare. But we know what business we are in.

Do not think XC requires fancy ships. We do much XC training using L/D30 (theoretical) wooden SZD-30. It used to be a matter of honor to do diamond distance on an L/D 30 ship before flying some better machine. Do not think XC=private owners. Most of my fellow club members who do XC do not own any ship (hard thing for a 19 year old, or someone raising a family). Do not think for individual pilots money has to be a deciding issue. After training (expensive, no way around that) full weekend of XC using club equipment (no individual investment) is about $150 for 2 4-hours flights (8hrs total), tug tows included.

Dave: you write "Why must every glider pilot be forced to become a cross country soaring and racing pilot?". This is exactly what my wife (400+hrs) was saying when asked to participate in competitions. But when she took part in her first KSS camp she got hooked. Hooked into the camp concept, not competitions. These camps are not (ostensibly) to train ratrace racers, they are to enjoy soaring. You may soar above airfield all the camp time (some people do), but you still are in the group of fellow enthusiast (well, you are still expected to drive to the boonies to get them out often :-) ). You are not frown down for doing it in any way which gives YOU fun. The KSS motto is "Soar! Nothing else matters!" - and it is being lived. XC training is a means to the end.

But even if you think XC is not for you, or not for you yet, befriending a national-level competition pilot who will discuss with you, as an equal, some details of your or his thermalling is something which really does increase the fun factor overall. And you do this in a group. And you feel you belong, whatever your hours. This is (among other things) what these camps are about. I repeat - one thing these camps do is to integrate, to make evident there are no barriers.

I think also that "fun" is greatly increased if you get your technique better.
For one thing, you will be able to fly on days which beforehand you would skip. And these camps help a lot with technique at any level.

Last, I think the reference to Great Depression (Bill) is quite relevant. What matters mostly is in our heads and hands.

Piotr Szafranski




Remember, soaring began in the US during the Great Depression. All we need is a few thousand new people - and they are out there waiting to be found. I think the problem is entirely our own pessimism.

The facts are quite the opposite. "Americans tend to think of their middle class as being the richest in the world, but it turns out, in terms of wealth, they rank fairly low among major industrialized countries," said Edward Wolff, a New York University economics professor who studies net worth."

Median net worth for middle class Americans is approximately $45,000. We rank 19th in the world. If you look at all Americans, the number is $301,000 (4th). This number is highly skewed because of the very to ultra rich (Bill Gates types). Disposable income is dandy for the rich, but not so wonderful for the middle class and below.

If this is true, please explain the results from this study.

"Americans devote more money to enjoying the outdoors than buying gasoline, purchasing pharmaceutical drugs, or owning cars. More than 44 percent of us make outdoor recreation a priority, adding up to an annual economic impact of $646 billion, according to a recent report by the Outdoor Industry Association. (By comparison, Americans buy $354 billion worth of gas and other fuels.)"

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013...doors-gasoline

Read the full report he http://outdoorindustry.org/advocacy/...n/economy.html

The availability of cash to be spent on discretionary activity is not the problem and never will be. The economic argument is just an easy way out and takes the burden off of us, the soaring community, for not being able to figure out how to improve the product, adapt to a changing demographic, compete with the almost unlimited competition for participants, and recognizing our own failure to be successful in building the sport.

Cash does play some part in developing a program and and we have also failed to raise this capitol which is a failure of the community. Would each soaring pilot, once every year, be willing to donate the cost of one tow to develop a program to bring in new pilots and help retain those who have a ticket but do not fly?

In simpler economic terms, if the sport has no growth and attrition and natural causes erode the population of soaring pilots, every glider is now almost worthless. There is nobody to sell it to; no buyers. Even if gliders are traded amongst the current pool, there will soon be a glut of ships and the value will plummet to the same as my glider sitting in the yard is now, a future flower pot and relic.

The economic argument also gives the community an excuse to not try. Growing a sport or activity requires the same amount of effort as starting a business; the business of growing an activity. This is extremely entrepreneurial and entrepreneurs fail very often. Writers very often fail go find a published but when they do the results can be huge.

If the community stops trying the failure of the activity is almost guaranteed. If certain failure is the outcome what harm is there in trying?

Volunteerism also has its limits. People will gladly volunteer some time but when the volunteer commitment cuts into family or career the volunteerism is curtailed. The volunteers burn out trying to do two (or more) jobs' one makes them money to live, the other eats time. Money can be replaced; time cannot.

The economic issue is not with the potential soaring pilot, the economic issue is with the current community not being willing to spend money to find new pilots.

There are many great ideas being kicked around here. We need to find the cash to fund a program so the person running the program can earn a living and devote themselves without having to make a choice of where to spend their time.


I think the problem is entirely our own pessimism.[/quote]

Amen! This often becomes self fulfilling.

Threads like this are optimistic and insightful. Thank you all for contributing and please keep doing so.

Well, the post above is about bringing people to soaring, and while there are plenty of facts, they do not support what we are seeing in VA right now.

Since we have started an active Facebook and web presence, kept updated with phots and videos, we have more new members and FAST applicants than we can train with our existing instructors (...and that creates problems on it's own). At a recent meeting of the Virginia Soaring Association (VaSA), the other VA soraing clubs which have the same types of presence are experiencing the same.

We do not have fancy trainers, just one each of a 2-33, Super Blanik and PW-6, yet that has not seemed to put anyone off in the least. So it's not always about selling the newest and best stuf.

The product is not the planes, or the facilities. Yes they need to be adquate, but it's not the main issue. The product is the joy and freedom of flight. The product is the challenge and art of staying ariborne based on your own skills and experience. The product is the thrill of venturing away from the aerodrome and gettting more than one thermal from the field and still making it back. The product is completing loops, rolls, tail slides, spins without an engine. The product is joining up with a Bald Eagle and flying with a raptor for a space of time. The product is hitting the road and flying in wave, or down a ridge. The product is membership and belonging in a small unique community and socializing with people who share your passion. The product is the sense of fun, pride and satisfaction in becoming a pilot.

Sure, money does play a factor for many. But we are bringing in more than we can handle right now, because there are always plenty of people who do have enough to enjoy the sport of soaring--if they so choose. It's just a matter of finding them, and letting them know about the excitement, challenge, art, variety and various abilities of sailplanes... the fun, excitment reward that is all part of the sport.

All that comes across well on social media, and with good FB, Twitter and web page management. It brings new people in of all ages. Maybe the kids will not stay as they go to college or start families. Some will. But they are likely to come back. Getting them interested in cross country hasn't been hard either, as our club encourages it, and plays up OLC and logging flights all the time. It has worked. We don't push competition, but we have competitors...

It's not as doom and gloom as many make out.

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:01:36 AM UTC-4, Squeaky wrote:
Well, the post above is about bringing people to soaring, and while

there are plenty of facts, they do not support what we are seeing in VA

right now.



Since we have started an active Facebook and web presence, kept updated

with phots and videos, we have more new members and FAST applicants than

we can train with our existing instructors (...and that creates problems

on it's own). At a recent meeting of the Virginia Soaring Association

(VaSA), the other VA soraing clubs which have the same types of presence

are experiencing the same.



We do not have fancy trainers, just one each of a 2-33, Super Blanik and

PW-6, yet that has not seemed to put anyone off in the least. So it's

not always about selling the newest and best stuf.



The product is not the planes, or the facilities. Yes they need to be

adquate, but it's not the main issue. The product is the joy and

freedom of flight. The product is the challenge and art of staying

ariborne based on your own skills and experience. The product is the

thrill of venturing away from the aerodrome and gettting more than one

thermal from the field and still making it back. The product is

completing loops, rolls, tail slides, spins without an engine. The

product is joining up with a Bald Eagle and flying with a raptor for a

space of time. The product is hitting the road and flying in wave, or

down a ridge. The product is membership and belonging in a small unique

community and socializing with people who share your passion. The

product is the sense of fun, pride and satisfaction in becoming a pilot.



Sure, money does play a factor for many. But we are bringing in more

than we can handle right now, because there are always plenty of people

who do have enough to enjoy the sport of soaring--if they so choose.

It's just a matter of finding them, and letting them know about the

excitement, challenge, art, variety and various abilities of

sailplanes... the fun, excitment reward that is all part of the sport.



All that comes across well on social media, and with good FB, Twitter

and web page management. It brings new people in of all ages. Maybe

the kids will not stay as they go to college or start families. Some

will. But they are likely to come back. Getting them interested in

cross country hasn't been hard either, as our club encourages it, and

plays up OLC and logging flights all the time. It has worked. We don't

push competition, but we have competitors...



It's not as doom and gloom as many make out.









--

Squeaky

Couldn't agree more with Kevin and Squeaky. We need to convey the excitement and passion. The students will follow.

Dennis

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:01:36 AM UTC-6, Squeaky wrote:

The product is not the planes, or the facilities. Yes they need to be

adquate, but it's not the main issue.

That's what we think but it's probably not what a student's family thinks since they have no other way to judge a glider operation than by appearances - and they likely have a say in funding a student's training.

We don't see those who fail to show up so we form distorted opinions. If all the discouraged would-be glider pilots appeared at once, there would be an enormous mob leaning on the airport fence.

Equipment and facilities do matter - bigtime.

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:08:01 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:34:16 PM UTC-6, Evan Ludeman wrote:



Winches are non-starters at most ops I've been involved in. We don't have the space and more space is prohibitively expensive. Existing airports in the 4500+ range are mostly asphalt, public use, high performance GA, with runway lights and traffic and not really a step up in the "nice to hang out" direction. An old but serviceable tow plane is a hell of a lot more economical than scratching a new 4500x300 airfield out of trees, rocks or farm land.





-Evan



Evan, with respect, we don't need "Negative Experts" to tell us why it won't work. We need people with the imagination to see how to make it work.



The Winching World column in the October issue of Soaring will address winch economics in detail.

Bill,

The economics of the machine were never, ever in doubt. The airport can be a problem.

Hence, the interest in existing 4500'+ runways. Around here, those are found exclusively at public use airports. We're trying to find a new home for our winch at one such, right now. There is a precedent for winch activity at the place we have in mind... but the fact of the matter is that there have been more turbine airplane ops at this airport than winch ops for several years and the tendency is always towards more signs, more lights, more rules, more acronyms and so forth. It's not a busy place. On weekends gliders out number single engine GA by a fair margin and it's a rare weekend that any jet traffic shows up while gliders are flying. It happens, but there has never been a problem.

A potential obstruction to gliding at such airports is AC 150/5300 on airport design. This document contains all sorts of "good" reasons to prohibit winching and severely restrict aero towing, and I think this may have been the basis for a whole lot of bother at Mifflin Co. in the last year or two. It's a document written with the safety of turbine airplanes in mind, period. I can "imagine" operating a winch launch operation safely at these not-so-busy airports without interfering in any way with other users (thank you very much) but it is sometimes difficult to deal "imaginatively" with some of the people that will assert themselves in charge of such airports when obstruction is on their minds. Constructive thoughts on the matter would be of interest.

Evan Ludeman

Men no longer willing to put their amusement first is probably the biggest problem. Used to be daddy did what daddy wanted to do on the weekend and that was that. No longer works that way for almost all dads.
The other issue no one has mentioned is unpleasant club cultures. Not universal but there are plenty of them around. And the unpleasant culture may not be obvious to experienced pilots that own gliders and have a level of autonomy far removed from new students.
Solve those two and soaring will do just fine.

On Sunday, August 24, 2014 12:00:00 AM UTC-4, gb wrote:
Men no longer willing to put their amusement first ...

Earlier this summer, I helped an octogenarian wife put her octogenarian husband's trailer on her hitch to go retrieve him from a land out. It was interesting to see that 'the old ways' were not entirely made-up tales.

If XC soaring lasts long enough, we will someday be able to summon our self-driving cars and trailers to a landout.