DME recommendations

What he said, squared. About the only thing I can think of that you can
do
with a DME that you can't with a terminal-certified GPS is use it to fly
an
ILS-DME (because you don't have the location of the ILS DME ground station
in the GPS database). Unless you have some very specific reason to need
DME for one of the very few things GPS can't replace it for, I think it
would be foolish to invest in DME these days.

Roy, you corrected yourself in a later post.
If I understand it correctly
ILS-DME approaches if loaded into the IFR GPS can be flown with the GPS, How
else could the new DA40-180 and Garmin G1000 do it? Waypoints loaded into
the ILS course provide the "distance to" information needed for an ILS-DME
approach.

Review AC90-94 and the AIM on IFR GPS in lieu of DME

As a side note, our local FBO got a "new" BE33 on the lease back rental
line, DME is broke.. the owner (Private Pilot) did not know what it was..
and did not know what "DME" was. The local radio shop told him he'd spend as
much trying to figure out what was wrong as to replace it. The owner decided
not to repair it, just placard it INOP. So, he just took away all of his IFR
rentals.

BT

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...
The only argument for a DME is if you have an IFR GPS, there are
requirements for being able to fly your alternate with no GPS, so a DME
allows you to fly VOR/DME approaches as well as ILS's requireing DME
with your GPS out.


I think you need to distinguish between the requirements for CHOOSING the alternate, and the requirements to
actually FLY the alternate. Having an IFR GPS but no DME unit affects the former, but not the latter.

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Doug wrote:

The only argument for a DME is if you have an IFR GPS, there are
requirements for being able to fly your alternate with no GPS,

Which goes away with WAS.

What he said, squared. About the only thing I can think of that you can
do
with a DME that you can't with a terminal-certified GPS is use it to fly
an
ILS-DME

No reason you can't use your GPS to fly an ILS/DME. There's no
requirement for the DME shack to be in the database. My GX55 is just
such a unit. Terminal/enroute only. You navigate ILS/DME's using a
distance from the outer marker.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

What he said, squared. About the only thing I can think of that you can
do
with a DME that you can't with a terminal-certified GPS is use it to fly
an
ILS-DME

No reason you can't use your GPS to fly an ILS/DME.

AIM 1-1-19(f) gives a specific list of situations where you can use a GPS
in lieu of ADF or DME. Determining a fix made up of a LOC course and a DME
reading isn't one of them.

There's no requirement for the DME shack to be in the database.

Well, there's things like:

NOTE-
When using a facility as the active WP, the only acceptable facility is
the DME facility which is charted as the one used to establish the DME fix.
If this facility is not in your airborne database, you are not authorized
to use a facility WP for this operation.

That sure sounds to me like a requirement to have the DME ground station
(the antenna, really, not the shack) in the database.

My GX55 is just such a unit. Terminal/enroute only. You navigate
ILS/DME's using a distance from the outer marker.

Can you give me a specific example?

jsmith wrote:

Don't waste your money on a DME. Too much maintenance.
Purchase a good used IFR GPS.

mindenpilot wrote:

Some DMEs seem to have an indicator, and then a separate receiver
box, like the ARC 800 DME.
Others I've seen just seem to be an in-panel job, like the Narco DME
190 or the King KN62A.
I've seen some on Ebay, and wanted to make sure that the Narco 190/
King KN62A don't require an additional recieving unit, like the ARC 800.
That is, if I were to purchase a yellow-tagged Narco 190 (and tray
and connectors), would that be all I need? Antenna?


Adam, that is what I did. I had a ADF that didn't work and no DME. I
purchased a factory reconditioned KLN89/B and had it installed and
removed the ADF. The 89/B is working for me althought a Garmin 530 would
also me nice.

Ross

--
Regards,

Ross
________________________________________
972.952.3170 Phone 972.949.9249 Pager
972.952.2574 FAX

McKinney / Wing A2 North @ 48v72

Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
"Dude" wrote:



"jsmith" wrote in message
...


Don't waste your money on a DME. Too much maintenance.
Purchase a good used IFR GPS.



What he said!

I am presently looking to replace my RNAV/DME with a new GPS. By the time
you buy and install a used DME system you will be getting pretty close to a
used IFR GPS.



What he said, squared. About the only thing I can think of that you can do
with a DME that you can't with a terminal-certified GPS is use it to fly an
ILS-DME (because you don't have the location of the ILS DME ground station
in the GPS database). Unless you have some very specific reason to need
DME for one of the very few things GPS can't replace it for, I think it
would be foolish to invest in DME these days.


I have found the DME location in my KLN 89/B database. I tried it once.

ross

jsmith wrote:
Don't waste your money on a DME. Too much maintenance.
Purchase a good used IFR GPS.


Maintenance? I've had a KN64 in my panel for over a decade.
I haven't had any maintenance done to it. Now the rest of the
King SC stack is a different story. The GS crumped and occasionally
the displays on the KX155's fail. The transponder needs regular
attention and the stupid ADF I am never certain if it is ever working.

I'm in the middle of switching over to a Garmin stack, the only
thing I'm keeping is the KN64.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to install one
if I didn't already have one. Back when I put it in, I knew it was
likely to be the first casualty of the GPS era.

Roy Smith wrote:


GPS approaches are getting more and more common. My guess is it would be
pretty rare to find any airport with an ILS that didn't also have some sort
of GPS approach. If you have some specific airports you plan on visiting a
lot, check out specifically what approaches they have.

Can't think of one. However we have some airports here where you can't
fly the ILS without either DME or a radar callout for a required fix.

Ron Natalie wrote:
: Maintenance? I've had a KN64 in my panel for over a decade.
: I haven't had any maintenance done to it. Now the rest of the
: King SC stack is a different story. The GS crumped and occasionally
: the displays on the KX155's fail. The transponder needs regular
: attention and the stupid ADF I am never certain if it is ever working.

: I'm in the middle of switching over to a Garmin stack, the only
: thing I'm keeping is the KN64.

: On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to install one
: if I didn't already have one. Back when I put it in, I knew it was
: likely to be the first casualty of the GPS era.

I'll pipe in here and say that a DME is still incredibly handy to have. It's
stone-cold simple to dial up, independent of databases and the rest of the GPS
fiddling cruft. If you already have one and it works, it's got a lot of utility for
situational awareness if you have a chart in front of you. The IFR GPS doesn't give
you as much quick situational awareness unless it's moving map, since you'll have to
fiddle with something to get a distance/bearing to something.

That said, for people shelling out big bucks for an install, what everyone
said about the GPS makes sense. I put a KNS-80 (ILS/GS/NAV/DME/RNAV) in my Cherokee
about 2 years ago, as we needed another NAV and a GS. It's lots of bang for the buck,
and they're almost free on ebay these days. If you're going to pay $1000-$2000 for an
install, though, the $500 KNS-80 isn't quite as useful as a $1000 IFR GPS UNLESS you
need another NAV/ILS/GS as well. Then it makes a lot of sense.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************