Most reliable homebuilt helicopter?

I was at BWB's house the night before the crash when Gil called him.
Bill told him he had company and would talk to him some other day... we
heard the next day Gil had crashed and died...

John

Flyingmonk wrote:
I observed Gil Armbruster building his mini500 from the day he wrote
his deposit check to the day that I went out looking for him and I
attended his funeral. I usually stop by his hanger after my flights
and shoot the breeze with him. I helped him with the doors for it too!
Boy I sure mis him. I just go to the Hanger just to say Hi to him in
my own way.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Hi John, glad to see you in here. Yeah, I miss that guy Gil. Getting
used to that big new house yet?

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Jim wrote:
True, but "I" wouldn't want to be flying one at 1550 hours when something
major broke, just as predicted by the "parts supplier."

You wont get an argument from me on that one Jim. ; ^). Like I said
befo

Anyways, not many of them have more than
300hrs total and 80%+- of that 300 hrs is hovering and testing time
anyways, from what I hear.

So more than likely, the 1,500hr airframe retirement time is
irrelavent. Maybe the factory ship will reach that mark maybe not.

I doubt that any customer's machine will reach that point, but than
again, they are flying them a whole lot in England from what I gleamed
in PPRUNE's Rotorhead forum.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

"Flyingmonk" wrote

If a homebuilt is registered as "Homer162" or "JiminNC162f" as the
manufacturer, I don't understand how a 1,500hr airframe limit is gonna
be enforcable.

True, but "I" wouldn't want to be flying one at 1550 hours when something
major broke, just as predicted by the "parts supplier."
--
Jim in NC

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:50:51 -0500, "PittsS1C" wrote:

Can we rank them in terms of reliability...

Based upon? Where do we find unbiased reliability reports for all models
amateur-built helicopters? Accident reports, yes, but these do not necessarily
reflect reliability. I suspect few people have owned more than one model of
homebuilt helicopter, and thus a relative ranking between two types is
difficult.

One can certainly study homebuilt rotorcraft accident rates as a gauge of
safety, but just because an aircraft has a lower rate doesn't mean that the
owner isn't out fixing a bunch of little stuff every time he opens the hangar
door.

Back when I did that study of homebuilt aircraft accidents, I calculated the
accident rate for 18 homebuilt types. The design with the worst record was a
fixed wing.... and the Mini-500 wasn't even the worst-scoring homebuilt
helicopter.

Ron Wanttaja

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:lA1Ue.27423$7f5.17665@okepread01...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

snip

The Rotorways seem to be the best designed kit helicopters, but I think
"Best kit helicopter" goes in the same category as "friendliest NAZI".
The guys in the hangar next door to me have built, bought, converted,
sold, and/or owned 5 Rotorways, and all total, I've seen the skids off
the ground probably 10 minutes or less. They used to trailer them to
fly-in's under 50 miles away.

KB


If this is true, and it may well be, how do they keep selling the things?

At least two of them were turbine conversions, as seen in a Sport Aviation
article a couple of years ago. Someone is always willing to believe that if
you hang a turbine on an airframe, it'll make a silk purse out of a sow's
ear. Unfortunately, the turbine conversion for the Rotorway is very
unproven. Probably under 500 flight hours (maybe as low as 250 flight hours)
among all 5 or 10 that have flown. The two I'm aware of both had unplanned
landings due to engine/drivetrain problems within the first 30 hours or so.
On one, the driveshaft for the tail rotor failed at 2' off the ground, and
on the other, the engine lost power resulting in an off-airport landing. My
acquaintances still own at least one airframe (maybe two).

Again, people are willing to believe what they want to believe. The dream
of a reliable homebuilt helicopter (turbine or otherwise) is still an
unfulfilled dream, but there are people who really, really want to
believe... For other examples of similar unfounded optimism, think of the
BD-5, the Prescott Pusher, and a host of other projects that sounded good,
but proved otherwise.

KB

A note of interest: I'm flying a Safari, have 250hrs and have not had any
real maintenance that was not caused by me fooling around with different
ideas other than oil and filter change. The CHR factory ship, I believe,
just reached 2,000 hrs. It has received numerous mods and a lot of updates
and general trial and error designs. I have been involved with the
experimental helicopter community since 1995 and have some opinions about
reliability, but nothing really based on database analysis. Some Rotorways
have a bunch of hours successfully, I can think of one guy who has logged
over 1,000 hrs Rotorway time, but I don't know how many ships were involved.
Don't know how the Jet Execs are standing up, but I think that I've heard of
several gearbox failures. Most of these gearboxes were sprint car variants.
I guess one thing to think about is the title of " Experimental". None of
the Safaris that I know of are exact copies of the other. I doubt if many
of the Rotorways are carbon copies of each other. I don't believe that any
attempt at categorizing different ships as being more or less reliable makes
any kind of sense due to the variability of each ship manufactured by each
builder. If someone wants a really reliable helicopter, then they had best
be looking at the certified ships where a reliability study has a chance of
being more meaningful.

--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Flyingmonk" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim wrote:
True, but "I" wouldn't want to be flying one at 1550 hours when something
major broke, just as predicted by the "parts supplier."

You wont get an argument from me on that one Jim. ; ^). Like I said
befo

Anyways, not many of them have more than
300hrs total and 80%+- of that 300 hrs is hovering and testing time
anyways, from what I hear.

So more than likely, the 1,500hr airframe retirement time is
irrelavent. Maybe the factory ship will reach that mark maybe not.

I doubt that any customer's machine will reach that point, but than
again, they are flying them a whole lot in England from what I gleamed
in PPRUNE's Rotorhead forum.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
...
A note of interest: I'm flying a Safari, have 250hrs and have not had any
real maintenance that was not caused by me fooling around with different
ideas other than oil and filter change. . . snip

Here's an anecdote BTW. I think it was in Laurel, Montana as we were fueling
after a RON on the way to Oshkosh.

There was a red helicopter at the pumps with "EXPERIMENTAL" placards. He had
just flown the same route across Washington, Idaho and Montana one day
earlier than us. The headwinds were nothing short of ferocious that day - I
was really glad they had calmed a bit when we came through.

He told me they were home based at Paine Field if I remember correctly. They
had to lay over an extra day for some part to be delivered. I think he told
me they flew over Mullen Pass accompanied by a Super Cub or something
similar. Kind of a buddy system.

In any case, he was headed for Oshkosh, too at a staggering 90 mph or so.
Two souls on board - I hope they made it all the way. The machine had Marine
Corps decals on it and looked sharp.

Rich S.

Rich: They made it to Oshkosh. They were switching off. One flying and
the other driving a van towing a small trailer with some tools, oil and
misc. They flew at Oskosh including two circuits of the main show when they
let us fling wings have about 15 minutes of show time. However, on the way
home, and about 30 miles out of Paine Field, the pilot experienced a problem
and did an auto that had a landing that didn't really render the ship
useable again. Pilot was uninjured. Probably on an NTSB report by now.
The Safaris are built very well when it comes to survivability. I know. I
crashed mine once. (Pilot error). The two partners were retired Marine
Pilots. The pilot at the time of the auto had in excess of 3500 hrs helo
time; much of it in Vietnam.
The kit manufacturer, Canadian Home Rotors once flew their ship from Ear
Falls Canada to Sun'n Fun. The pilot had no chase crew.

--
Kathy Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell

www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com


"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
...
A note of interest: I'm flying a Safari, have 250hrs and have not had
any
real maintenance that was not caused by me fooling around with different
ideas other than oil and filter change. . . snip

Here's an anecdote BTW. I think it was in Laurel, Montana as we were
fueling
after a RON on the way to Oshkosh.

There was a red helicopter at the pumps with "EXPERIMENTAL" placards. He
had
just flown the same route across Washington, Idaho and Montana one day
earlier than us. The headwinds were nothing short of ferocious that day -
I
was really glad they had calmed a bit when we came through.

He told me they were home based at Paine Field if I remember correctly.
They
had to lay over an extra day for some part to be delivered. I think he
told
me they flew over Mullen Pass accompanied by a Super Cub or something
similar. Kind of a buddy system.

In any case, he was headed for Oshkosh, too at a staggering 90 mph or so.
Two souls on board - I hope they made it all the way. The machine had
Marine
Corps decals on it and looked sharp.

Rich S.

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
...
Rich: They made it to Oshkosh. They were switching off. One flying and
the other driving a van towing a small trailer with some tools, oil and
misc. They flew at Oskosh including two circuits of the main show when
they
let us fling wings have about 15 minutes of show time. However, on the
way
home, and about 30 miles out of Paine Field, the pilot experienced a
problem
and did an auto that had a landing that didn't really render the ship
useable again. Pilot was uninjured. Probably on an NTSB report by now.
The Safaris are built very well when it comes to survivability. I know. I
crashed mine once. (Pilot error). The two partners were retired Marine
Pilots. The pilot at the time of the auto had in excess of 3500 hrs helo
time; much of it in Vietnam.
The kit manufacturer, Canadian Home Rotors once flew their ship from Ear
Falls Canada to Sun'n Fun. The pilot had no chase crew.

Kathy..............

Good news and bad news. I am very happy to hear they made it, I hope they
enjoyed the ride. Very sorry to hear it was so close to a complete round
trip. Thank God and the Marine Corps that the pilot came through.
Helicopters can be built or rebuilt.

Thanks for passing the word,
Rich S.