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Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 15th 20, 08:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 9:51:46 PM UTC-4, Charles Longley wrote:
There is no reason your club can’t stay a 501 (c) 3 and still have the CFI’s be paid. I am associated with two clubs in the PNW. One insists that there will be no remuneration for the CFI’s. The other says the students shall pay the CFI’s a set hourly rate. Which club do you think has no issues having multiple CFI’s available each weekend and which club is lucky to have one? Which club do you think puts out more rated pilots? How many prospective students have left the club that doesn’t have available CFI’s?

Charlie


Our club like so many has been faced with the same scenario, shall CFIG's be paid. I will only speak for myself, when I started the club this issue came up at our first meeting. Seemed that only one or two were insistent on being financially rewarded for their so called professional services. Our club BOD at the time consisted of our CFIG and he along with the remaining members said that no payment for CFIG's. We only lost one or two prospective members that felt that they could not be part of the club without being compensated.
What about the tow pilots, if you compensate the CFIG, then what does the tow pilot get? Our very first year one tow pilot did over one thousand tows and never asked for a penny.
We have a CFIG that drives from Ocala to Vero for the purpose of helping our club, when he gives power instruction at his own airport or flight reviews he ask the recipient to make a donation to TCSC, now can you get any better than that?
So, I guess the whole point is club vs commercial operation, I too learned to fly gliders at a commercial operation, afterwards moved over to Thermal Research and learned how to soar. Commercial operations do a lot to keep soaring viable, my hat is off to all of these operations. They can deal with personalities much differently than a club. They put their money on the line for their business, much to be said for that. People sometimes forget and lose perspective as to what a club is all about, giving back. I hope when I decide to walk away I can say that I made a difference. Bob
  #12  
Old July 15th 20, 02:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

Of the two clubs I was talking about. The one that has the students pay the instructors also pays their tow pilots. They both have two tow planes. Guess which one has both tow planes manned every weekend and which one has the tow planes sit idle on good soaring weekends due to lack of a tow pilot?
  #13  
Old July 15th 20, 02:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On a side note some of the tow pilots and CFI’s donate their fees to the club that pays them, some do not. Depends on their individual situation.
My point is it’s all well and good to give back to aviation. But not all people feel that way. I’ve seen a couple of really good instructors and tow pilots leave the one club due to lack of remuneration. It doesn’t do any good to have free instruction if it’s not available.
  #14  
Old July 15th 20, 02:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Todd
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

I always find it interesting that the students pay (1) Initiation Dues (2) Annual Dues (3) Glider rental (4) Tow fees and then the club wants to give away the CFI (and the tow pilot) training costs. I guess the CFI-G really isn't worth that much (but then, try showing up for a check ride with no CFI logbook endorsements and see how far you get).

CFI's have REAL expenses for all that free stuff the club wants to give away. e.g. Travel expenses to the airport (not insignificant in some cases); FIRC; Liability insurance; Lost opportunity to fly their own ship (if they own one); Payment of club dues like every other member.

I am not advocating "market" rates for your local CFI-G but some compensation is certainly warranted.

Todd
CFI-G
exp JUL-2022
  #15  
Old July 15th 20, 05:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
joel!!!!@yahoo,com
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a 501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30 mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1) Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500
Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see: https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524

I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school, Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation. There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member qualifications. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free. We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades- age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?
  #16  
Old July 15th 20, 05:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:34:29 PM UTC-4, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?


Good old days are still here. I instruct & tow for free, just like you (and many others) did for me. Thanks Joel.

Evan Ludeman
Post Mills Soaring Club
  #17  
Old July 15th 20, 06:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 390
Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:34:29 PM UTC-4, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a 501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30 mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1) Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500
Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see: https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524

I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school, Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation. There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member qualifications.. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free. We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades- age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?


Joel, THANK YOU! Looking back at my early years we had truly professional instructors and tow pilots. Paul Crowell, aka Pablo was our go to tow pilot and Bill Harris was our instructor, and they never charges a penny, and yes, they were as professional as you could find.
Recently I made it possible for a young man to get his tail wheel endorsement, tow endorsement and his CFIG. It was satisfying to me and my wife, who also enjoys flying gliders to be able to provide something for someone who could not afford to do so himself. Every weekend this young individual is at the glider club either jumping in the Pawnee to tow or giving free instruction for our members. The good days are not gone !
  #18  
Old July 15th 20, 07:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
MNLou
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Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

It is interesting that Tow Pilots are charged an initiation fee and monthly dues.

I'm pretty sure ours fly for free. Without them, we are grounded.

Lou
  #19  
Old July 15th 20, 08:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Posts: 504
Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On 7/15/2020 10:34 AM, joel!!!!@yahoo,com wrote:
On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 10:27:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Volunteer Tow-pilots and CFIG wanted to join Sandhill Soaring Club, a
501(c)(3) not profit gliding club located in Gregory, Michigan, about 30
mins from Ann Arbor, Lansing, and western portions of Greater Metro
Detroit.

Fleet: (1) SGS-233; (1) ASK-13; (2) Grob 103 Twin II; (1) DG-505; (1)
Open Cirrus; (1) Std. Cirrus; (1) Scheibe SF-25C Motorglider; (1) Piper
Pawnee towplane; (1) L-19 Bird Dog towplane (Cessna 305A); (1) Winch

Note About the Fleet: Competent pilot-members may rent club aircraft for
use at camps, glider club fly-ins, and SSA Sanctioned Regional and
National Contests.

Non-refundable Initiation Fee: $500 Monthly dues for CFIG and Tow-Pilot
Specialist Members: $22.50/month

Standard Tow Rate (2,000' AGL): $22

Glider Rates vary from $20-50/hr; see:
https://www.sandhillsoaring.org/dues-fees

Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org

For more information, Contact Chris Schrader at (612) 210-5524

I usually don't post to chat boards but in this case I will - apologies if
this is a repeat-- I started flying gliders at Schweizer Soaring school,
Elmira, NY circa 1965, fell in love with the sport, after a three hiatus
returned to the States and joined HHSC Harris Hill Soaring Corporation.
There was an established monthly duty roaster according to member
qualifications. The Junior members were in charge on their own group with
adult supervision - instructions was for free, club owned sailplanes had
minimal fees. Income was generated primarily from tourist income. I worked
my way up the ranks to become a CFIG the payback by instructing for free.
We all pitched in where we could -- I have been out of soaring for decades-
age and health but -- ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE?


My short-form take is, "Yes!" (They are gone. Time moves on. Things change.
Etc. As to "Why?", everyone has their list.) That said: I received my
instruction free; it's still available in some (percentagely preponderant?)
clubs; I'm glad it is!

With "the obligatory - and in this instance, regretful (as opposed to
unapologetic!) - head-nod" toward contributing to thread-drift, I'll throw in
my overview on what IMO is "a somewhat religious topic" within the soaring
community...i.e. one's view is "faith-based."

FWIW...

There seems to be two schools of thought regarding the question: Should club
instructors provide their services for free, or be allowed to "charge for
professional services rendered"? Both have already been put forth in this thread:

- The "Should be free/Give-backers" school, and;
- To not allow "professionals to charge professionally" is: an insult; taking
advantage of them; puts the future of the club at risk; etc.

IMO, there ain't no resolving the difference in opinions - they just are.

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

  #20  
Old July 15th 20, 08:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Christopher Schrader[_2_]
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Posts: 45
Default Tow Pilots and CFIG Wanted at Sandhill Soaring Club (Michigan)

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 2:30:51 PM UTC-4, MNLou wrote:
It is interesting that Tow Pilots are charged an initiation fee and monthly dues.

I'm pretty sure ours fly for free. Without them, we are grounded.

Lou


Doesn't MSC require all of its members to buy a share or partial share of the corporation, which the club only partially returns when you leave?

I have to say our system seems to be working well for the club but I am not opposed to clubs that adopt the other school of thought... its rationale is logical and makes a lot of sense to me.

That said, you can never have enough tow pilots and CFIGs so I figure why not advertise our fleet. Tow pilots can also rent our two-seat Bird Dog for personal use at $85/hr wet so there's another bonus. :-)

I will say, I think our dues allow us to afford good equipment and for that I don't apologize to anyone. Our club is continuing to consolidate and improve its fleet and for that I'm grateful.

- Chris Schrader
 




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