returning to flying after 29 years

this is FlyBoy watchout!
on 4/28/2008, Qzectb supposed :
I find that about 50% of what I hear on the radio is just plain
unintelligible. It always WAS hard for me to make out what was being
said, even when I knew roughly what to expect, but it seems worse
today. Maybe it's my middle-aged ears.

No. There have been some small changes (airspace, etc). However, most
of it is just that you haven't done it in awhile. There are lots of

I hope you're right. Just to be clear, it's not interpretation of
instructions that I find difficult. It's just that every second word
usually sounds like raw static to my ears. "cessna two echo static
turn static static contact static at one three three static
five." It's like trying to understand a conversation in a very
noisy bar. But maybe practice is the key.

2) King VFR Flight Review (better for those that just need refresher,
includes the stuff
below)http://www.kingschools.com/productDe...0KSJV033CSEDVD

Just ordered this.... thanks for the helpful suggestion and the
encouragement.

"Q" == qzectb writes:

Q I got my pilot license in 1978 when I was 20, continued flying
Q into 1979 accumulating a total of 70 hours, and then stopped
Q when I became a university student and had neither money nor
Q time.

Sounds very similar to my experience, but: 1975 when I was 20, around
60 hours TT, stopped for 17 years.

Q It's everything else that's got me nervous: tower
Q communications, controlled airspace, etc. Among other things,
Q I realize that the entire airspace classification system has
Q changed since I last flew.

Q I find that about 50% of what I hear on the radio is just plain
Q unintelligible. It always WAS hard for me to make out what was
Q being said, even when I knew roughly what to expect, but it
Q seems worse today. Maybe it's my middle-aged ears.

A good ANR headset helps a lot. I recommend LightSpeed; look for used
ones on ebay or contact LightSpeed themselves for refurbished models.

Funny. I got my license originally at San Jose Metro (now
International) so could handle towers no problem, but don't show me
any runway less than a few thousand feet and 50 feet wide. When I
took it up again it was from a 30 foot runway. I could easily land on
any taxiway but don't push me into controlled airspace.

Now, hundreds of hours later, either is OK. Practice is your best
friend. Catch rides with friends or in the back seat of a 172 and just
listen. Google for Internet feeds of airport and ATC radio traffic
and listen to those.

Q Side note: When I last flew, a C-152 was $19/hour wet, a C-172
Q was $24/hour. There was no GPS. There were effectively no
Q electronic navigation calculators. There was only one fuel
Q sump checkpoint in each wing, and (to my recollection at least)
Q no strobes on wingtips. Also fewer switches to mess with on
Q the panel. The C-172 engine was carbureted, not
Q fuel-injection. And yet, overall, I'm amazed at how little the
Q 172 has changed in three decades.

I recall from 1975: $14/hour wet, instruction $8/hour. Yeah, pretty
sad about the little progress from Cessna. Which is why now I'm
building an RV-9A.
--
This monkey mythology of Darwin is the cause of permissiveness,
promiscuity, prophylactics, perversions, pregnancies, abortions,
porno-therapy, pollution, poisoning and proliferation of crimes of all
types. ~ Judge Braswell Dean

On Apr 28, 7:39 pm, Qzectb wrote:

The net result is that I convinced myself that I can handle (or will
soon handle) the physical part of flying about as well and safely as I
ever could.

If you were a truck driver off for from 90 days to 3+ years some
insurers will require a carrier to have you complete a 3-7 day refresh
or complete CDL course.

It's everything else that's got me nervous: tower communications,
controlled airspace, etc. Among other things, I realize that the
entire airspace classification system has changed since I last flew.

That could be a red flag, stuff to misremember, confuse, unlearn and
relearn.

Radios, those always sound like gobbledygook until your ears get tuned
back in.


Oh yeah... and does your wife have any sisters?
-----

- gpsman

Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association has a webpage on getting back
into flying after a layoff,

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/guides/getback.html

This looks great .. thanks for the pointer!

On Apr 28, 7:39*pm, Qzectb wrote:
I got my pilot license in 1978 when I was 20, continued flying into
1979 accumulating a total of 70 hours, and then stopped when I became
a university student and had neither money nor time. But I've been
longing to get back into it all this time, and yesterday, my wife
totally surprised me for my birthday by taking me to the airport and
saying, "you're going flying". Sure enough, she had scheduled time
with an instructor and a C-172, and she said she was giving her
blessing on my doing whatever it takes to get current again.

So I went through the preflight with the instructor, took off and
climbed out with relatively minimal prompting, successfully executed
two 360-degree steep turns (the instructor actually told me I did them
more accurately with respect to altitude and attitude than he could
have done!), a touch and go landing, and then a final landing. *Okay,
so I flared a little high on my first landing but managed to recover
and land without a bounce - I had a bit of that tendency even when I
was flying regularly.

The net result is that I convinced myself that I can handle (or will
soon handle) the physical part of flying about as well and safely as I
ever could. * Also, I'm a professional meteorologist, so I probably
still know the weather stuff about as well as anyone who flies.

It's everything else that's got me nervous: *tower communications,
controlled airspace, etc. *Among other things, I realize that the
entire airspace classification system has changed since I last flew.

I find that about 50% of what I hear on the radio is just plain
unintelligible. *It always WAS hard for me to make out what was being
said, even when I knew roughly what to expect, but it seems worse
today. *Maybe it's my middle-aged ears.

So I'm wondering whether anyone has suggestions on how to smooth the
transition back to regular flying most cost-effectively. *Are there
books or computer software packages that would do an especially good
job of refreshing me on the parts I feel weak on, so that I can save
dual-time for the things that can't be covered well via self-study?

Side note: *When I last flew, a C-152 was $19/hour wet, a C-172 was
$24/hour. *There was no GPS. *There were effectively no electronic
navigation calculators. *There was only one fuel sump checkpoint in
each wing, and (to my recollection at least) no strobes on wingtips.
Also fewer switches to mess with on the panel. *The C-172 engine was
carbureted, not fuel-injection. * *And yet, overall, I'm amazed at how
little the 172 has changed in three decades.

Hi Q!

Do yourself a favor if you're a bit mic shy and confused about radio
and airspace:

1. Take your instruction at a flight school that works out of an
aerodrome that has a control tower, preferably one that is near (and
whose controlled airspace is probably tucked underneath) a large and
busy hub or international airport. I trained at Toronto City Centre
Airport (CYTZ), about 25 miles from an international airport (CYYZ -
Pearson), and each and every flight involved a lot of precise and
frequent radio work, both with CYTZ ATIS ground and tower, but also
the regional Toronto Centre when you wanted to climb above the City
Center airspace. You learned by having to do it ... on every single
flight. Some people I have met that are lowish-time private pilots
avoided this kind of airport on purpose for their ab initio training
to avoid the quick and frequent radio activity, and I found that they
were never forced to learn ... so they didn't, and tend to still shy
away from busy airspace, or climbing to better cruising altitudes
because of the dreaded international airport controlled airspace above
them. It's important to understand both how to accept/decline
clearances and take instructions, recognize the "picture" of the space
around you by listening to what other planes near you are being told
to do as well as by looking out the windows. Of course you should
also fly to and around uncontrolled aerodromes as well in order to
understand how they work and what your responsibilities are on the
radio when in the airspace around them too. Cross country hours can
be used to get to them, or ask to go do your touch-and-goes at a
different aerodrome than where the flight school is located. Get used
to what goes on at as many aerodromes as possible while training.
That way you will learn procedures properly, not just how they apply
specifically at the aerodrome where your flight school is located.

2. There's lots of good training software (at least for airspace and
radio work in the U.S. ... Canada lags behind here pretty
significantly ... we had a good 20 page book that taught the
essentials of radio work for 20 bucks though!!!) ... buy some and use
it.

3. After a bit of work on the software or learning materials, find
some live ATC broadcasts on the internet, get the VFR and IFR charts
and airport configuration diagrams and approach plates for the airport
you want to listen to, and then listen to the internet broadcasts for
a couple of hours a week and look at the charts. Jot down any
questions and ask your instructor on the next lesson. Probably most
of it will be IFR clearances that aren't relevant early in re-
training, but it's an investment in time for later. If you enter
airspace with considerable IFR activity you'll at least get to
recognize those calls and start getting a picture of all the planes
around you and what they are doing.

If the flying went well on the first re-acquaintance flight don't let
the radio and airspace stuff worry you too much. Train at a towered
airport (but make some trips to uncontrolled aerodromes) and you'll
be proficient and confident much more quickly.

Good luck!

PPL-A (Canada).

On Apr 29, 10:55*am, "PPL-A (Canada)" wrote:
On Apr 28, 7:39*pm, Qzectb wrote:



I got my pilot license in 1978 when I was 20, continued flying into
1979 accumulating a total of 70 hours, and then stopped when I became
a university student and had neither money nor time. But I've been
longing to get back into it all this time, and yesterday, my wife
totally surprised me for my birthday by taking me to the airport and
saying, "you're going flying". Sure enough, she had scheduled time
with an instructor and a C-172, and she said she was giving her
blessing on my doing whatever it takes to get current again.

So I went through the preflight with the instructor, took off and
climbed out with relatively minimal prompting, successfully executed
two 360-degree steep turns (the instructor actually told me I did them
more accurately with respect to altitude and attitude than he could
have done!), a touch and go landing, and then a final landing. *Okay,
so I flared a little high on my first landing but managed to recover
and land without a bounce - I had a bit of that tendency even when I
was flying regularly.

The net result is that I convinced myself that I can handle (or will
soon handle) the physical part of flying about as well and safely as I
ever could. * Also, I'm a professional meteorologist, so I probably
still know the weather stuff about as well as anyone who flies.

It's everything else that's got me nervous: *tower communications,
controlled airspace, etc. *Among other things, I realize that the
entire airspace classification system has changed since I last flew.

I find that about 50% of what I hear on the radio is just plain
unintelligible. *It always WAS hard for me to make out what was being
said, even when I knew roughly what to expect, but it seems worse
today. *Maybe it's my middle-aged ears.

So I'm wondering whether anyone has suggestions on how to smooth the
transition back to regular flying most cost-effectively. *Are there
books or computer software packages that would do an especially good
job of refreshing me on the parts I feel weak on, so that I can save
dual-time for the things that can't be covered well via self-study?

Side note: *When I last flew, a C-152 was $19/hour wet, a C-172 was
$24/hour. *There was no GPS. *There were effectively no electronic
navigation calculators. *There was only one fuel sump checkpoint in
each wing, and (to my recollection at least) no strobes on wingtips.
Also fewer switches to mess with on the panel. *The C-172 engine was
carbureted, not fuel-injection. * *And yet, overall, I'm amazed at how
little the 172 has changed in three decades.

Hi Q!

Do yourself a favor if you're a bit mic shy and confused about radio
and airspace:

1. *Take your instruction at a flight school that works out of an
aerodrome that has a control tower, preferably one that is near (and
whose controlled airspace is probably tucked underneath) a large and
busy hub or international airport. *I trained at Toronto City Centre
Airport (CYTZ), about 25 miles from an international airport (CYYZ -
Pearson), and each and every flight involved a lot of precise and
frequent radio work, both with CYTZ ATIS ground and tower, but also
the regional Toronto Centre when you wanted to climb above the City
Center airspace. *You learned by having to do it ... on every single
flight. *Some people I have met that are lowish-time private pilots
avoided this kind of airport on purpose for their ab initio training
to avoid the quick and frequent radio activity, and I found that they
were never forced to learn ... so they didn't, and tend to still shy
away from busy airspace, or climbing to better cruising altitudes
because of the dreaded international airport controlled airspace above
them. *It's important to understand both how to accept/decline
clearances and take instructions, recognize the "picture" of the space
around you by listening to what other planes near you are being told
to do as well as by looking out the windows. *Of course you should
also fly to and around uncontrolled aerodromes as well in order to
understand how they work and what your responsibilities are on the
radio when in the airspace around them too. *Cross country hours can
be used to get to them, or ask to go do your touch-and-goes at a
different aerodrome than where the flight school is located. *Get used
to what goes on at as many aerodromes as possible while training.
That way you will learn procedures properly, not just how they apply
specifically at the aerodrome where your flight school is located.

2. *There's lots of good training software (at least for airspace and
radio work in the U.S. ... *Canada lags behind here pretty
significantly ... we had a good 20 page book that taught the
essentials of radio work for 20 bucks though!!!) ... buy some and use
it.

3. *After a bit of work on the software or learning materials, find
some live ATC broadcasts on the internet, get the VFR and IFR charts
and airport configuration diagrams and approach plates for the airport
you want to listen to, and then listen to the internet broadcasts for
a couple of hours a week and look at the charts. *Jot down any
questions and ask your instructor on the next lesson. *Probably most
of it will be IFR clearances that aren't relevant early in re-
training, but it's an investment in time for later. *If you enter
airspace with considerable IFR activity you'll at least get to
recognize those calls and start getting a picture of all the planes
around you and what they are doing.

If the flying went well on the first re-acquaintance flight don't let
the radio and airspace stuff worry you too much. *Train at a towered
airport (but make some trips to uncontrolled aerodromes) *and you'll
be proficient and confident much more quickly.

Good luck!

PPL-A (Canada).

Oh yes ... forgot ...
1. If you're worried about your hearing ... get that checked first. A
medical right now might be a wise investment even if the results are
disappointing.

2. If the hearing is still fine then invest in at least a good,
comfortable pair of noise canceling headphones. The rental ones are
often old noisy and uncomfortable. if you're getting back into flying
despite the new world of $150 - $195 per hour wet with instructor
C-172 SPs then you no doubt have the means for $500 to $1000 for your
own nice headset ... go for it ... it's not as fun to fly when you
can't hear and the top of your head hurts from crappy rental headsets.

3. Learn to fly the model of plane you will later want to take out as
a rental (or buy !?!). I saved quite a bit of money by training in
old C-150/152s up until just before my dual cross-country lesson,
then did the second half of my training and check flight in a shiny
new fuel injected (gladly leaving carb heat behind), 180 horse power
172 SP (with GPS, all digital radios, two COM and two NAV radios, ILS
and DME, ADF etc. ... no glass cockpit, but still very nice, and
clean). Most importantly the 172 SP could hold a couple of other
people and some baggage and cameras, etc, and still climb OK with full
tanks; and most importantly the bigger, newer, cleaner plane with lots
of instruments and avionics instilled far more confidence in my
passengers than the old faded 150/152 with its two seats and worn out
looking cabin.

I stayed current (within the flight schools regs.) on both 150s and
the 172s for about 6 months (practice in the 150 and 172SP, but only
take out friends and family in the 172!), but soon gave up on the 150
when a 200 HP ("high-performance" in Canada) Piper Arrow with
retractable gear and constant speed prop. caught my eye at a flight
school 30 nm from my local airport!

Cheers!

PPL-A (Canada)

aluckyguess wrote:


Buy a nice headset with noise canceling you will hear much better.



I remember when I started in the '70s and all the shouting we did
talking to each other. The ANR headsets are wonderful.
--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Just remember.. you do not need to retake the written.. but this is the best
way to get up to speed on the material and changes over the last 20 years.
Welcome Back

BT

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, Qzectb wrote:
It's everything else that's got me nervous: tower communications,
controlled airspace, etc. Among other things, I realize that the
entire airspace classification system has changed since I last flew.

You are in good company. Most of the pilots I work with that haven't
flown in years feel the same way. Not a big deal.

I find that about 50% of what I hear on the radio is just plain
unintelligible. It always WAS hard for me to make out what was being
said, even when I knew roughly what to expect, but it seems worse
today. Maybe it's my middle-aged ears.

No. There have been some small changes (airspace, etc). However, most
of it is just that you haven't done it in awhile. There are lots of
great training aids out there that I recommend to my students.
Depending on where you are in general I would recommend one of the
following products....

1) King Private Pilot Exam course (covers all ground work, great in
you really feel rusty)
http://www.kingschools.com/searchRes...Exam%20Courses
2) King VFR Flight Review (better for those that just need refresher,
includes the stuff below)
http://www.kingschools.com/productDe...0KSJV033CSEDVD

The follow are more spot tools if you have specific areas you want to
addres...

3) King Communications (if you just want to brush up on radios)
http://www.kingschools.com/productDe...D%20KSJV017DVD
4)King Airspace review
http://www.kingschools.com/productDe...D%20KSJV009DVD
5) King regs review
http://www.kingschools.com/productDe...D%20KSJV033DVD

I recommend King only because I know their products, but there are
others. In general I feel that its a better use of your time and money
to try these inexpensive DVD courses first and then review with the
CFI. While I can teach you all this as a CFI the DVDs contain a lot of
good graphics and can be watched at any time. Then when we get
together you have a great starting point from which to discuss
questions. Although you noticed communications was something you were
rusty on, I find that regulations and airspace need a lot of review
for those that have been out of flying for awhile.

-Robert, CFII

On Apr 30, 11:12*am, "BT" wrote:
Just remember.. you do not need to retake the written.. but this is the best
way to get up to speed on the material and changes over the last 20 years.

Interesting, in (some) other countries the written test has a limited
validity and you have only a few years grace before you hare to retake
them if you don't complete the training in that period.

Cheers

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 11:12 am, "BT" wrote:
Just remember.. you do not need to retake the written.. but this is the
best
way to get up to speed on the material and changes over the last 20 years.

Interesting, in (some) other countries the written test has a limited
validity and you have only a few years grace before you hare to retake
them if you don't complete the training in that period.

Cheers

--------begin new post----(still hoping to understand OE)-----------

It expires here as well if you don't complete the certification. However,
the OP stated that he was "licensed" back in the day.

Peter