Sparrowhawk vs PW5

John wrote:

I am not sure the Apis, Silent, or Sparrowhawk are readily available
at the club level yet. The dealers seem helpful, though.

I'm a little surprised that these dealers don't sponsor
some competition pilots (at least a little). One would
think a $1000 sponsorship, an insurance subsidy
for an open pilot clause, and parts would buy a lot of
exposure at a contest for these gliders. Who's going to buy
a glider they've never seen nor flown? Is there a better way to
get new product exposure than at a contest?

Polar data on the gliders which have been discussed reveals the
following:

The PW-5 is at the bottom of the stack when it comes to lighter
sailplanes. The Apis and the Russia are both a little better at
different parts of the curve and depending upon the part of the curve
you are more concerned about.

The SparrowHawk is heads above all of these when it comes to running
and XC capability. I have set several world records in the prototype,
and production models are better. To give you some idea of the
capabilities, I flew 2 back -to -back 500 km triangles on my first two
attempts at same with this glider. I do not believe that any of the
other gliders mentioned would have completed the courses in the
ambient conditions. I have a total of 14 world records in gliders and
regularly fly a wide variety- from the lightest wing loading at 2.25
psf to the heaviest open class ships at 12.65 psf (an experimental
glider). The SparrowHawk is a fine design, and my favorite thing about
it is the extremely rapid handling qualities it posesses. It is safe,
with no surprises.

Comments from another poster re ability to damp out turbulence are not
correct. This ability comes from W/S (wing loading), not empty weight,
and the SparrowHawk has a higher capability in this regard compared to
the others. On tow, you will find it similar to your previous Libelle
and DG. In flight, it will rapidly outclimb both. In glide, it should
best the Libelle in almost all conditions while running and come close
to the DG 17m in some, below its capabilities in others. As far as
assembly/ground handling is concerned, the 40 lb. wings are unmatched
by the others and sustain a much higher g-loading. I flew 130 mph-plus
groundspeeds during some of the world record runs.

SparrowHawk owners can either keep their gliders unregistered as a US
part 103 ultralight or can obtain an N-number. One more degree of
flexibility than the others, depending upon your desires.You might
think of the glider as an FAI Ultralight category design that is so
well executed given the use of pre-preg carbon (something the others
don't do) that it goes beyond this and also satisfies the stricter FAA
part 103 Ultralight requirements ( under 155 lbs. empty weight).

I have no connection with the SparrowHawk manufacturing company. Just
giving some objective observations. In fact, this summer I will be
flying a one-of-the-kind Silent 2 prototype specifically designed for
meeting the FAI crtieria for DU category. I will be flying for
performance and handling evaluation and possibly world records.

Having said all this, I can also say that both Greg Cole, the
SparrowHawk manufacturer and Robert Mudd, the Apis distributor, are
people of integrity. I am not saying that other
distributor/manufacturers are not. Simply that of the gliders
mentioned, these are people I have dealt with and have recommendations
based upon that.

Best Regards,
Gary Osoba

President, SHA- the Experimental Division of the Soaring Society of
Am.
President, Foundation for the Advancemnt of Microceteorological
Soaring

(Gary Osoba) wrote in message . com...

I have set several world records in the prototype...


Gary, what category are you setting the world records in? And what
were they previously held in?

I'm eagerly waiting for the Duckhawk to show up at a 15m race, so some
real comparison flying can be done.

I hope it is the breakthrough it is claimed to be; we need something
to shake up the status quo (and to drive down the costs of ASW-27s so
I can afford one!).

Bring a Sparrowhawk by Turf Soaring this summer, we would love to see
it in action in some good strong AZ thermals.

Kirk

I once participated in traveling around Midwest with a Pw-5 and we
were giving out a free rides to anybody that qualifies, the effects
were depressing, all we met was bunch of numbnuts who's only concern
was who is going to pay for a tow...And PLEASE save your comments
about Pw-5 for yourself. It was the most discouraging experience ever
and this exactly why it will not happen again for Diana, Pw-5 or SZD
55 - lack of interest! If you're interested in any of Polish (I don't
know about Germans) manufactured gliders contact the dealer and they
will be more than happy to let you use it for a day.

G.Kurek wrote:
I once participated in traveling around Midwest with a Pw-5 and we
were giving out a free rides to anybody that qualifies, the effects
were depressing, all we met was bunch of numbnuts who's only concern
was who is going to pay for a tow...

Hehehehe. Another good reason to have a competition pilot fly
it during a competition as a demo. Then maybe DON'T let anyone
fly it unless they beg and fill out a ton of paperwork, and
make a non-refundable down payment (which just so happens to be the
same as the price of the tow) :P

But face it, glider pilots are as a group trying to
get something for nothing, right? Heck, we're too cheap
to pay for most of our climb. We expect mother nature to provide
it. How cheap is that!

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:403f918a$1@darkstar...
G.Kurek wrote:
I once participated in traveling around Midwest with a Pw-5 and we
were giving out a free rides to anybody that qualifies, the effects
were depressing, all we met was bunch of numbnuts who's only concern
was who is going to pay for a tow...

Hehehehe. Another good reason to have a competition pilot fly
it during a competition as a demo. Then maybe DON'T let anyone
fly it unless they beg and fill out a ton of paperwork, and
make a non-refundable down payment (which just so happens to be the
same as the price of the tow) :P

But face it, glider pilots are as a group trying to
get something for nothing, right? Heck, we're too cheap
to pay for most of our climb. We expect mother nature to provide
it. How cheap is that!

It is allways a tough question to let someone fly a new glider for
nothing or even the price of a tow. There is alot at risk, the only
demo glider, and what of insurance? If someone puts down a deposit
that is diffrent but for the rest of us we will just have to take the
word of our fellow pilots and make our desicions on that.

In article ,
JB wrote:
(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:403f918a$1@darkstar...
G.Kurek wrote:
I once participated in traveling around Midwest with a Pw-5 and we
were giving out a free rides to anybody that qualifies, the effects
were depressing, all we met was bunch of numbnuts who's only concern
was who is going to pay for a tow...

Hehehehe. Another good reason to have a competition pilot fly
it during a competition as a demo. Then maybe DON'T let anyone
fly it unless they beg and fill out a ton of paperwork, and
make a non-refundable down payment (which just so happens to be the
same as the price of the tow) :P

But face it, glider pilots are as a group trying to
get something for nothing, right? Heck, we're too cheap
to pay for most of our climb. We expect mother nature to provide
it. How cheap is that!

It is allways a tough question to let someone fly a new glider for
nothing or even the price of a tow. There is alot at risk, the only
demo glider, and what of insurance? If someone puts down a deposit
that is diffrent but for the rest of us we will just have to take the
word of our fellow pilots and make our desicions on that.

In any sales venture, legwork is key. Prepping the customers,
getting invited to things, getting publicity, getting the
feelgood is important. Then reliability and trust.

As a salesman, even if all this is done, the deposit, and the final
payment are the thing. I've taken more than a few deposits,
made the terms clear, and had the buyer withdraw. Always
very amicably. I was fine with it, since the deposit was very
carefully priced to pay for my time, and the customer was
satisfied because the non-refundable terms were clear.

I've also lost deposits as the buyer before. I was very clear
about what I wanted to do (test flights, inspections) and
number of hours I'd put on the aircraft and how long
it would stay off the market. I was always satisfied that
the deposit was fair and even though I didn't complete the sale
(this has happened about 1/2 dozen times) the seller was
satisfied too.

I've done a very few transactions where the money/merchandise
exchanged but not simultaneously. I've done this maybe 6 times,
and very carefully, with low $$$ items and in country.
By and large, soaring pilots are much more trustworthy than the
general yahoo. I abmire Bob Wander for his "I'll send it, then
you send me a check" policy. Amazing.

I don't know if I'd commit to showing up for anything (especially
with a demo glider) for less than $100. If a guy doesn't have
a $100 itching to get out of his wallet, he ain't gonna buy no glider...
--

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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA