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#51
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"Gordon" wrote in message ... The Mosquito bomber had no guns to shoot with, front or back, PB. The FB did, but that is not what Keith was referring to. Indeed, I recall a Mosquito observer who had previously been on Blenheims who described his shock on being told that the squadron's new aircraft would be completely unarmed. Of course when their loss rate dropped dramatically when they started flying missions they changed their tune. Keith |
#52
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ubject: #1 Jet of World War II
From: "John Keeney" Date: 7/8/03 11:32 PM Pacific I don't know... Seems to me when you're trying to blow up that much high-explosive, at fairly close range, it might as well be shooting back. Be careful what you wish for....(grin) Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#53
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"phil hunt" wrote in message . .. It doesn't have a pilot. It was a missile, not an aircraft. The definition of "aircraft" includes "pilot"? |
#54
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#56
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"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
om... | | | There is a story in a recent (1 yo) Air Enthusiast of A British | Gloster Meteor Pilot flying to a German airfield by arrangement (prior | to the cessation of hostilities) and being given a test flight/taxi | run in a Me262 while the Germans examined the meteor. (newagent | browse, never brought the mag) | | He seemed impressed with the 262 but pointed out that the build | quality and materials of the meteor was much higher. The only thing | on the Meteor that he seemed to think was clearly superior was the | Meteors electric start vs the 2 stroke reidel motor in the 262. | | The Me 262 had a EZ 42 computing gyro gun sight, a FuG 244 ranging | radar that could via the "Elfe" computer inject the firing solution | into the gun sight for the cannon and I believe unguided R4M 55mm | misiles as well. It could even set the timer fuses and fire the | larger unguided missile (100mm) the germans were developing that had a | forward facing conical fragmentation pattern) Similar article in "Flightpath" last year about Tony Gaze, Australian WWII Spitfire and Meteor pilot, post war F1 driver. Typical underachiever. ;-) Landed as Schleswig and said "G'day" . Was offered a 262 flight, but politely declined because at that stage 262's were still inviting unwanted attention from Mustangs and Typhoons. Interesting read. Cheers Dave Kearton |
#57
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The Me 262 had a EZ 42 computing gyro gun sight,
Well, a few of them did. Not a large percentage at all. Look at it this way - not one of the few survivor airframes were fitted with an EZ42, and 90% of Me 262 pilots never saw one. a FuG 244 ranging radar that could via the "Elfe" computer Never entered service. No 262 flew a single sortie with this device. inject the firing solution into the gun sight for the cannon and I believe unguided R4M 55mm misiles as well. Galland et al always maintained they used the standard Revi gunsight for sighting the R4Ms. It could even set the timer fuses and fire the larger unguided missile (100mm) the germans were developing that had a forward facing conical fragmentation pattern) X-4 or that X- or XS-100? Either way, the 262 didn't "have" the system, it was only a proposal. Another dance of the mayflies for the Germans as they frittered away the last days. It was an awesome weapons system. That it was. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
#58
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On 10 Jul 2003 14:45:23 GMT, Gordon wrote:
It could even set the timer fuses and fire the larger unguided missile (100mm) the germans were developing that had a forward facing conical fragmentation pattern) X-4 or that X- or XS-100? X-4 was a guided missile IIRC. -- Phil "If only sarcasm could overturn bureaucracies" -- NTK, commenting on www.cabalamat.org/weblog/art_29.html |
#59
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#60
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Galland et al always maintained they used the standard Revi gunsight for
sighting the R4Ms. How did the aim and at what range. Was it a ripple fire weapon? Yes. Did they stand of outside 50 caliber range? No, they couldn't loiter off and trundle up to take a rocket shot like the earlier rocket shooters, due to the escorts. So the preferred method was to come in astern and let the rockets go from between 1,500 down to 800 yards, aiming for any overlapping targets they could find. It seems to have been very effective? The pilots that used this configuration (Galland, Steinhof, Bar, etc) agree that with the addition of the R4Ms, they now had a weapon perfectly capable of sweeping the US heavies from the sky. Poodles of course, but that is what they thought at the time. It could even set the timer fuses and fire the larger unguided missile (100mm) the germans were developing that had a forward facing conical fragmentation pattern) X-4 or that X- or XS-100? I think XS-100. I am always a bit perturbed about that particular one, because I can find so little mention of it in German wartime documents. I am not a big fan of books and try to keep my studies to the original documents which keeps at least one layer of 'interpretation' from clouding the commentary. snipabit An accousitc fuse which opperated on the doppler shift as the missile passed by the bombers propellors was to be installed in both. I think the dveice were called kranich and dogge. The sure loved those gadgets. The XS-100 (I'm not sure about that name: its mentioned in a Monograph book called Arado 234 blitz bomber) is a different unguided missile of 100mm diameter which nevertheless had a timer fuse and a powerfull forward facing conical framnentation pattern warhead. The Elfe computer in concert with a radar ranging device in the Me262 nose was supposed to set the fuse as well as prime the EZ 42 gyro sight and presumably bracket the target with a salvo of these unguided missiles and their rather nasty warheads but the missile was still optically aimed albeit with the lead computed and the pilot relieved of towsiting knobs to find the range optically. But the pilots were having a dickens of a time adjusting their tactics to fit the EZ42. KG 51 pilots hated it and were instructed to turn it off and use it as a standard optical site. Conversely, JG 300 Bf 109 pilots that tested it in combat _loved_ it and gave much credit for their success during the trials to the new gunsight. Now I do know that there was supposed to be an elefe and elfe-3 computer which was meant to find its way into the Arado 234P (4 jet engined BMW003 night fighter version of the Arado 234 jet bomber) In concert with the Fug244 Berlin N3 radar it was supposed to take over the aircraft via the autopilot and set the fuse and fire the XS-100 [SIC] fully automatically. I have all the Arado files regarding the nightfighter from BAMA and the PRO and I think this didn't actually represent a planned production aircraft - its one of dozens of proposals advanced by the engineers, desperate to keep a pencil in their hands and not a Panzerfaust. They were consciously heading towards fully automatic interceptions for night fighters. Agree - for lots of reasons. I don't think this is far fetched because the late war Bernhard/Bernhardine navigation system had shown itself capable of delivering jam resistant location information and more pertinently telemetary to night fighter aircraft. Combined with the K-22 three-axis autopilot, I think the Bernardine-equipped aircraft would eventually be intended to have a fully blind landing capability. The Schlechtwetterjäger variant of the 262, precursor to all later "all weather" aircraft, was a primative attempt to create a day fighter with enhanced navigation, but the later Arado nightfighter projects as well as the Me 262 B-2a were going to benefit from the K-22 and other advancements that showed how agressively the bad guys were working on a true all weather a/c. Either way, the 262 didn't "have" the system, it was only a proposal. Another dance of the mayflies for the Germans as they frittered away the last days. In their desperation and material shortages the Germans were sometimes technically magnificent and were often only months to a year away from deployment. Realistically one can find lots of clever allied projects: the miles supersonic jet with its escape pod and the various allied guided missiles like BAT but in many areas the German did lead the way. Certainly they were the most technicaly matched opponent the allies ever encountered. It was truly a wizard's war in the night skies over Germany. Their attempts at stealth in the Go229, the fast type XXI subs and their clever passive ranging sonar set, the assault rifles and the dozens of sometimes farsighted innovations seen on Luft46 Thankfully, they were led by utter morons. It was an awesome weapons system. That it was. Mig 15s seemed to have pushed B29s out of the sky over korea because the US lacked a suitable escort. I think the Me262 would have done the same "if" it had of been deployed earlier. Its development was I think the end of the long range 4 engined slow bomber defended by guns which is why it is so interesting. It certainly signaled the end of the prop escort fighter! v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Aircrew "Got anything on your radar, SENSO?" "Nothing but my forehead, sir." |
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