Production rates?

Congrats to SZD for making 5000 gliders. That's a bunch. How many years did
it take. What is their production rate and how does it compare with Western
European (German) factories? Must be a high percentage of training gliders?
Any military?
I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower annual
rate. Am I missing something?
Ed Byars

U¿ytkownik "Ed Byars" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Congrats to SZD for making 5000 gliders. That's a bunch. How many years
did
it take. What is their production rate and how does it compare with
Western
European (German) factories? Must be a high percentage of training
gliders?
Any military?
I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower annual
rate. Am I missing something?
Ed Byars

Hello Ed,

Well, the roots of the SZD start just after the II World War, when they had
begin their existence as the IS - Instytut Szybownictwa (The Gliding
Institute), later renamed to SZD - Szybowcowe Zak³ady Doswiadczalne (The
Scientific Works for Gliding). The production first comprised of the
training gliders, with exception for the IS-1 Sep which has been a high
performance sailplane then. The rest of the gilders in production were
pre-war designs just like the Komar (Mosquito) and the Salamandra
(Salamander?). They also restarted the production of German Kranich II,
produced under the name IS-C Zuraw (Crane). 50 Kranich II gliders were made.

As the SZD had owned it's own design bureau (well, I must admit, that was
one of not many good things in the communist era, that state supported this
sport widely) there were several designs, of which lots were only
prototypes. Take just the SZD-40-X Halny (an experimental biplace XC ship),
or SZD-9 Bocian PULS (an SZD-9 Bocian powered with two pulse jet engines,
first flown in 1956).

http://www.piotrp.de/SZYBOWCE/dbopuls.htm

Below there is a listing of the designs I believe to be most numerous in
production:

SZD-9 Bocian (Stork), biplace: 615 gliders
SZD-10 Czapla (?), biplace: 157 gliders
SZD-12 Mucha 100 (Fly 100), solo training: 290 gliders (+later licenced
production in China)
SZD-22 Mucha Std (Fly Std.), training&XC: 290 gliders
SZD-24 Foka 4 (Seal 4), high performance XC: 204 gliders
SZD-30 Pirat (Pirate), training (mostly clubs): 813 gliders
SZD-32 Foka 5 (Seal 5), high performance XC: 132 gliders
SZD-36(A) Cobra 15, high performance XC: 290 gliders
SZD-41 Jantar Std (1) (Amber Std), high performance XC: 159 gliders
SZD-48 Jantar 2(b) (Amber 2), open class: 168 gliders
SZD-48(-3) Jantar Std. 2/3 (Amber Std 2/3), high performance XC: 631 gliders
SZD-50-3 Puchacz (Owl), biplace: 327+ gliders
SZD-51-1 Junior, training (ment to replace Pirats): 255+ gliders
SZD-55-1 Promyk ("a little ray"), high performance XC: 107+

* The gliders marked with "+" by the number are currently in production.

These are the most numerous I believe, but there were much more designs,
just look at the website:

http://www.piotrp.de/SZYBOWCE/dszd.htm

This is also the place I took the numbers from.

About the series, it seems that first, Germans were less focused on
producing new models, but more on maintaining them in production for many
years to maximize the profits. The "old SZD" was state runned company, and
much more was focused on the design work which shown in more designs in
shorter production runs.
Note also that SZD exported most of its production to the Eastern Bloc, in a
very large numbers (that's why we now call the former Soviet Union "A
Jantars mine"). Just look at the website on Polish built gliders:
http://www.lak-12.org/pol/

By the way, it seems that cumulative number of Jantar Std series seems to be
comparable with LS-4, which could also mean that it is also worth
consideration when thinking of the "one design" competition. The price would
be without any doubt lower, maybe by a half of the price of the LS-4. The
moulds and all exuipment for its production still exists, and there wouldn't
be any problem with restarting the production.

I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower annual
rate. Am I missing something?

I hope I have answered Your question so far. If not, please ask me again
what exactly You wanted to know, and I will supplement my response.

With kindest regards,


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland

-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

U¿ytkownik "Ed Byars" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Congrats to SZD for making 5000 gliders. That's a bunch. How many years
did
it take. What is their production rate and how does it compare with
Western
European (German) factories? Must be a high percentage of training
gliders?
Any military?
I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower annual
rate. Am I missing something?
Ed Byars

There's a cumulative table listing all the gliders made by the SZD, along
with the IS gliders included.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland

-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

U¿ytkownik "Ed Byars" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Congrats to SZD for making 5000 gliders. That's a bunch. How many years
did
it take. What is their production rate and how does it compare with
Western
European (German) factories? Must be a high percentage of training
gliders?
Any military?
I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower annual
rate. Am I missing something?
Ed Byars



There's a cumulative table listing all the gliders made by the SZD, along
with the IS gliders included.

http://free.ngo.pl/aerowroc/glider/szd/szd.htm

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland

-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

Janusz,

Could I ask if you know how many hours it takes the SZD factory to build a
Jantar or any of the other composite gliders they produce ? Where do the
composite materials (fiber, resin and core) come from, the Easter bloc or
from the West ???

Steve


"Janusz Kesik" wrote in message
...

U¿ytkownik "Ed Byars" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Congrats to SZD for making 5000 gliders. That's a bunch. How many years
did
it take. What is their production rate and how does it compare with
Western
European (German) factories? Must be a high percentage of training
gliders?
Any military?
I have owned German gliders with serial numbers in the low hundreds
after
being in production for several years, seeming to indicate a lower
annual
rate. Am I missing something?
Ed Byars



There's a cumulative table listing all the gliders made by the SZD, along
with the IS gliders included.

http://free.ngo.pl/aerowroc/glider/szd/szd.htm

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland

-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

U¿ytkownik "smjmitchell" napisa³ w
wiadomo¶ci u...
Janusz,

Could I ask if you know how many hours it takes the SZD factory to build a
Jantar or any of the other composite gliders they produce ? Where do the
composite materials (fiber, resin and core) come from, the Easter bloc or
from the West ???

Steve

Hello Steve,

I have sent an email to a person who might know something on the amount of
working hours needed to produce a Jantar or Junior. When I'll get a reply,
I'll send it here immediately. If we talk of the materials used, I think
they may be produced locally at least some of them, but it has no serious
importance I believe as these materials first have to be certifed ones, and
if they wouldn't have met the requirements, they wouldn't appear in the
workshop. Second, since we got rid of the communism and the hand-directed
economy and now we have a free market competition, the worse would lose
simply. Third, many of these materials may be produced locally under all
round the world known brands just like the Bayer and if they were worse, it
would expose this brand's reputation on a serious risk, and they wouldn't do
that. They simply must be same good as those used in the German gliders,
which are often finished with cheaper gelcoat instead of the crack-resistant
polyurethane paint which is a standard finish in case of SZD gliders.

With kindest regards,

--
Janusz Kesik
Poland
to reply put my name.surname[at]gazeta.pl
-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

U¿ytkownik "Janusz Kesik" napisa³ w
wiadomo¶ci ...
U¿ytkownik "smjmitchell" napisa³ w
wiadomo¶ci u...
Janusz,

Could I ask if you know how many hours it takes the SZD factory to build
a
Jantar or any of the other composite gliders they produce ? Where do
the
composite materials (fiber, resin and core) come from, the Easter bloc
or
from the West ???

Okay, now I know that the materials, for 99% all of them are made in the
Western Europe. When I'll get the information on workhours, I'll post it
here.


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland
to reply put my name.surname[at]gazeta.pl
-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

"Janusz Kesik" wrote in message ...
U¿ytkownik "smjmitchell" napisa³ w
wiadomo¶ci u...
Janusz,

Could I ask if you know how many hours it takes the SZD factory to build a
Jantar or any of the other composite gliders they produce ? Where do the
composite materials (fiber, resin and core) come from, the Easter bloc or
from the West ???

Steve

Hello Steve,

I have sent an email to a person who might know something on the amount of
working hours needed to produce a Jantar or Junior. When I'll get a reply,
I'll send it here immediately. If we talk of the materials used, I think
they may be produced locally at least some of them, but it has no serious
importance I believe as these materials first have to be certifed ones, and
if they wouldn't have met the requirements, they wouldn't appear in the
workshop. Second, since we got rid of the communism and the hand-directed
economy and now we have a free market competition, the worse would lose
simply. Third, many of these materials may be produced locally under all
round the world known brands just like the Bayer and if they were worse, it
would expose this brand's reputation on a serious risk, and they wouldn't do
that. They simply must be same good as those used in the German gliders,
which are often finished with cheaper gelcoat instead of the crack-resistant
polyurethane paint which is a standard finish in case of SZD gliders.

With kindest regards,

I think most people are already tired of your idiotic monologues
Mr.Kesik, give it a break.

"Libelle lover" wrote in message
om...
"Janusz Kesik" wrote in message
...
snip

I think most people are already tired of your idiotic monologues
Mr.Kesik, give it a break.

Speak for yourself, and please keep your rude insults off this group. Mr.
Kesik is a regular contributor to this newsgroup and I, at least for one,
find his contributions interesting and useful. If you don't like them, put
him on your blocked senders list and give the rest of us a break.

I have been enjoying the discussion about the dynamics of construction
in other countries such as Poland. I am curious about the "Man hours"
it takes to build a SZD glider. The history and details of the company
I find quite interesting and educational.

The negative and disrespectful comment posted earlier was the only
part of the discussion I could do without. But then again, I thought
reading the post was optional.

Hey Jansz did you find out the amount of time it takes to build one?

Steve

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:52:06 -0700, "Michael McNulty"
wrote:


"Libelle lover" wrote in message
. com...
"Janusz Kesik" wrote in message
...
snip

I think most people are already tired of your idiotic monologues
Mr.Kesik, give it a break.

Speak for yourself, and please keep your rude insults off this group. Mr.
Kesik is a regular contributor to this newsgroup and I, at least for one,
find his contributions interesting and useful. If you don't like them, put
him on your blocked senders list and give the rest of us a break.