Wing De-Icing Question

Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or 757, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces, other
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern jets ?

Thanks,
Bob

"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or 757,
is there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces,
other than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern jets ?

Hot bypass air from the engines is what they use, in general. I have to
admit I do not know it the 787 is going to go truly all electric, or still
use hot engine air to heat the wings.

Once you get up to airliners of a larger size, the use of boots is not
common. In smaller turbine commuters, and in piston planes, (especially
pistons) there is not enough heat produced to heat wings.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Robert11" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or
757, is there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail
surfaces, other than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern
jets ?

Hot bypass air from the engines is what they use, in general. I have
to admit I do not know it the 787 is going to go truly all electric,
or still use hot engine air to heat the wings.

Once you get up to airliners of a larger size, the use of boots is not
common. In smaller turbine commuters, and in piston planes,
(especially pistons) there is not enough heat produced to heat wings.


yes, there is. there have been many pistons with hot wings, fjukkwit.


Bertie

On Feb 13, 1:44*pm, "Robert11" wrote:
Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: *On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or 757, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces, other
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern jets ?

Thanks,
Bob

Jets don't typically have boots. Most use hot air stollen from the
engines to heat the leading edges. Some use a "leak" system to drip
anti-freeze like solution on the tail surfaces to avoid having to
plumb the hot air to the rear, although this is less common. I'm not
sure that I woudl call the type of plane that crashed less modern than
a 767 considering by-pass jet engines (the type in a 767) have been
around longer than turbo prop engines that were involed in this recent
crash.

-Robert

On Feb 13, 3:36*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 1:44*pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: *On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or 757, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces, other
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern jets ?

Thanks,
Bob

Jets don't typically have boots. Most use hot air stollen from the
engines to heat the leading edges. Some use a "leak" system to drip
anti-freeze like solution on the tail surfaces to avoid having to
plumb the hot air to the rear, although this is less common. I'm not
sure that I woudl call the type of plane that crashed less modern than
a 767 considering by-pass jet engines (the type in a 767) have been
around longer than turbo prop engines that were involed in this recent
crash.

-Robert

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like tailplane icing.
Take a look at http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...23060735779946
for a NASA produced video on the subject.

Note that this flight started its plunge right at or after the outer
marker. The outer marker is where you normally lower gear and flaps.
Lowering flaps is the thing that causes the tailplane stall if the
tailplane is iced up.

K l e i n

K l e i n wrote in
:

On Feb 13, 3:36*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 1:44*pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: *On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or
7
57, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces,
othe
r
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern
jets
?

Thanks,
Bob

Jets don't typically have boots. Most use hot air stollen from the
engines to heat the leading edges. Some use a "leak" system to drip
anti-freeze like solution on the tail surfaces to avoid having to
plumb the hot air to the rear, although this is less common. I'm not
sure that I woudl call the type of plane that crashed less modern
than a 767 considering by-pass jet engines (the type in a 767) have
been around longer than turbo prop engines that were involed in this
recent crash.

-Robert

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like tailplane icing.
Take a look at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...23060735779946 for a NASA
produced video on the subject.

Note that this flight started its plunge right at or after the outer
marker. The outer marker is where you normally lower gear and flaps.
Lowering flaps is the thing that causes the tailplane stall if the
tailplane is iced up.


Rubbish.

Bertie

On Feb 14, 9:12*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
K l e i n wrote :





On Feb 13, 3:36*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 1:44*pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: *On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767 or
7
57, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail surfaces,
othe
r
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new, modern
jets
?

Thanks,
Bob

Jets don't typically have boots. Most use hot air stollen from the
engines to heat the leading edges. Some use a "leak" system to drip
anti-freeze like solution on the tail surfaces to avoid having to
plumb the hot air to the rear, although this is less common. I'm not
sure that I woudl call the type of plane that crashed less modern
than a 767 considering by-pass jet engines (the type in a 767) have
been around longer than turbo prop engines that were involed in this
recent crash.

-Robert

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like tailplane icing.
Take a look at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60735779946for a NASA
produced video on the subject.

Note that this flight started its plunge right at or after the outer
marker. *The outer marker is where you normally lower gear and flaps.
Lowering flaps is the thing that causes the tailplane stall if the
tailplane is iced up.

Rubbish.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The NASA study on tail stall notwithstanding?

cavedweller wrote in
:

On Feb 14, 9:12*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
K l e i n wrote
innews:2d099c70-cb73-40be-a62e-feb3015f5
:





On Feb 13, 3:36*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 1:44*pm, "Robert11" wrote:

Hello,

I guess de-icing is going to be a popular subject.

Question, please: *On commercial jet airliners like, e.g., a 767
o
r
7
57, is
there any in-flight deicing system for the wing and tail
surfaces, othe
r
than a leading edge pneumatic boot ?

What about the "main," large upper surfaces ?

How in general is wing de-icing accomplished on these new,
modern jets
?

Thanks,
Bob

Jets don't typically have boots. Most use hot air stollen from the
engines to heat the leading edges. Some use a "leak" system to
drip anti-freeze like solution on the tail surfaces to avoid
having to plumb the hot air to the rear, although this is less
common. I'm not sure that I woudl call the type of plane that
crashed less modern than a 767 considering by-pass jet engines
(the type in a 767) have been around longer than turbo prop
engines that were involed in this recent crash.

-Robert

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like tailplane
icing. Take a look at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60735779946for a
NASA
produced video on the subject.

Note that this flight started its plunge right at or after the
outer marker. *The outer marker is where you normally lower gear
and flaps. Lowering flaps is the thing that causes the tailplane
stall if the tailplane is iced up.

Rubbish.

Bertie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The NASA study on tail stall notwithstanding?

Well, OK not impossible, but Wing if anythng..


Bertie

In article ,
says...




The NASA study on tail stall notwithstanding?


In this case I think Gezellig is right.
After the high-profile Roselawn (ATR) accident a few years ago, and the Vickers
Viscount accidents dating back to 1954, we have had ample time to improve our
icing awareness, particularly for the most vulnerable aircraft/mission
profiles, and if the truth be known we don't have much to show for it . . .

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Note that this flight started its plunge right at or after the outer
marker. The outer marker is where you normally lower gear and flaps.
Lowering flaps is the thing that causes the tailplane stall if the
tailplane is iced up.


Rubbish.


Uhh, which part of this is rubbish?
As I recall from a news account of the FDR, the loss of control was
immediately following gear / flap extension.

If it was the "outer marker is where you normally lower gear and flaps",
well yeah but I'm not sure that's the point.
T