Armed forces of an independent Scotland

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 01:51:28 +0100, Lachie ] wrote:

I think the point he is making is that media always talk through their
arses pontificating on things military.

And on things anything else. The meedja know about newspapers and TV
news, they aren't experts on any other subject, also they are under
strict time deadlines, thus often make elementary mistakes.

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Look at it this way. I have never been to Iraq yet, from media sources, I
read, watched and listened to what evidence there was on the situation. I
soon concluded that the military experts who were set on invading Iraq were
about to make a very big and expensive mistake, (in life, time and money). I
also concluded that the politicos knew this full well but for reasons other
than they were saying they would invade anyway.

In Tony's case he had aligned himself too closely to Bush to do
anything else.


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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:50:23 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
Well Denmark does very well as they are. Anyway Scotland would be entitled
to her share of the UK armed forces,

Sure, but it means you get to pay for them (and most of the support and
TacDev is way down south, meaning you need to pay again to duplicate it
if it's a hostile split). Balkanisation isn't usually a good idea (I
mean, _look_ at the Balkans - would _you_ want to live there?)

Last time I looked at a map Scotland was nowhere near the Balkans.
Denmark, Finland, Ireland, etc, seem to do OK as small countries in
Europe.

(or if not we could hang on to ALL the
nukes as hostages). If they don't give us our proper share the Indians,
Pakistanis, Israelis or even the Palestinians may pay well for them. Even
the Koreas have nuclear ambitions.

Careful there - the US might remember the Auld Alliance and decide that
Scotland is close enough to France to become part of the Axis of Evil.

Not if Scotland had a nuclear deterrent.

Trying to auction nuclear warheads might get some unwelcome gatecrashers

The USA paid Ukraine to get rid of theirs, as I recall.

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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:03:13 +0100, Robert Peffers wrote:
Careful there - the US might remember the Auld Alliance and decide that
Scotland is close enough to France to become part of the Axis of Evil.
Trying to auction nuclear warheads might get some unwelcome gatecrashers
(besides, most of the customers are short on manners, and might decide
that it was easier to kill other bidders than match their price, then
the auctioneer gets hit in the crossfire, and where's your profit then?)

You have to be kidding - I don't see coward Bushy invading the countries
that actually HAVE nukes.

Nor do I. Though the idea that the USA would invade a western,
European democracy is ludicrous anyway.

The situation you mention is that Scotland
did not get her fair share and had impounded all the UK's nukes and the
means to deliver them. Bushy is stupid but not that stupid.

The UK has 200-400 nukes so Scotland's share would be about 20-40.
Under the terms of the Vienna convention, Scotland would be a
nuclear weapon state as far as the Non Proliferation Treaty was
concerned.

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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:46:46 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:

Need tactics? The Maritime Warfare Centre is in Portsdown, on the south
coast. Want to maintain the nuclear warheads? Aldermaston wasn't in
Scotland last time I looked. How about the torpedoes for self-defence?
Also southern UK. Countermeasures? Ultra Electronics, also based south
of the border.

I'm sure these establishments would be happy to sell their services
for a fee. If not -- lots of other places make torpedos etc.

Spare parts come from Warton, which is - guess where? Armaments are BAE
and MBDA, which again aren't Scotland-based.

Though they do have establishments in Scotland (BAE does, I'm not
sure about MBDA). In any case, arms manufacturers are hardly likely
to refuse to sell arms.


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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:13:09 +0100, Robert Peffers wrote:

Who cares about spares anyway. Did you really miss the point by such a wide
margin?
That kind of scenario would only happen if England attempted to hold on to
everything and Scotland had to impound what was in Scotland. Thus England
would be creating an enemy from a friend. Now even England would not be so
very stupid, (would she). What would any country want to be creating an
enemy on her own front step? That would be crazy.

Politicans are not always known for the sensibleness of their
decisions; but I agree it would be silly, so they probably wouldn't
do it.

Any tin pot nation in the
World could attake England and have a ready made treaty with the Scots just
begging to be signed. Not even England is that stupid. Just imagine trying
to stop terrorist activity from Ireland and Scotland while attemting to
fight of some enemy from the Far or Middle East at the same trime. There is
only one logical defence policy for an independent England and Scotland - a
joint treaty to defend each other.

Makes sense.


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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:49:16 +0100, Paul J. Adam wrote:
In message , Robert Peffers
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
Spare parts come from Warton, which is - guess where? Armaments are BAE
and MBDA, which again aren't Scotland-based.
Ever heard of Almondale.

No. How many of the design teams for Eurofighter, Harrier, Tornado,
Jaguar et al are based there?

I suspect the desgn teams for the last 3 are long since disbanded.

Yes, there are. Unfortunately, if you think you can support your torpedo
outloads through them, they're dependent on support from BAE SYSTEMS
Waterlooville, which is about as far from Scotland as you can get and
still be part of the British mainland. (Do those depots make their own
spare parts? No, they don't, they depend on the manufacturer)

Who would be happy to sell to Scotland.


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"phil hunt" wrote in message
rg...

Look at it this way. I have never been to Iraq yet, from media sources, I
read, watched and listened to what evidence there was on the situation. I
soon concluded that the military experts who were set on invading Iraq
were
about to make a very big and expensive mistake, (in life, time and
money). I
also concluded that the politicos knew this full well but for reasons
other
than they were saying they would invade anyway.

In Tony's case he had aligned himself too closely to Bush to do
anything else.

That is neither here nor there. Anyone with half an eye and the other one
stuffed with rags could see that making stupid claims would end in disaster
for the guys making the claims. Hell! From what I see now Bush could have
raised the USA rabble by just telling them Saddam was a bad man and needed
killing. By the bloodhounds baying for blood even yet it looks like he could
have got away with it. The next election may yet see him get away with it
but it looks to me like Tony will have to go. The UK will stand a lot but
probably will shy at being lied to.
snip

--

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Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk
E-Mail:-
(Tak oot the wee dug tae send e-mail).


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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:22:39 +0100, Robert Peffers wrote:
None. your point was supply parts. Have you still not understood the point
that is being made to you? We are NOT in favour of being a World power in
Scotland. We want shot of Nukes. We are very much against the invasion of
sovereign states by the UK and USA, (and no I am NOT assuming to speak for
ALL Scots. I am quoting to you the results of countless surveys carried out
over many years.

I've always found this a little odd. If some Europeans dislike US
policy, regarding it as dangerously aggressive, surely the correct
response would be for Europe to have a larger military, to deter US
aggression against it?

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"phil hunt" wrote in message
rg...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:50:23 +0100, Paul J. Adam
wrote:
Well Denmark does very well as they are. Anyway Scotland would be
entitled
to her share of the UK armed forces,
snip

Trying to auction nuclear warheads might get some unwelcome gatecrashers

The USA paid Ukraine to get rid of theirs, as I recall.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
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Well! At least one person got the real point that I was making. The chances
of Scotland and England in a head to head confrontation with pea shooters is
almost laughable never mind lobbing nukes at one another. It is not in the
best interests of either Scotland or England not to co-operate on defence.
In fact the best thing that could happen for all concerned is for both
countries to realise we are just tiny little dots on the map and have no
right to be attempting to be World Powers. We must look to a European
military force if there is to be any hope of standing against the big
threats that will confront us in future. One of these threats is the Eastern
Bloc but another is the might of the USA who, make no mistake about it,
continue to attempt to dominate the World. Setting themselves against the UN
is a fair sign of where they are going.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk
E-Mail:-
(Tak oot the wee dug tae send e-mail).


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