Engine failure

A lot of 0-300's in the older 172's have fuel pumps, I am not too sure why
though. Maybe because of the 6 cylinders?

Tom

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

"The Visitor" wrote in message
...


RST Engineering wrote:

The OP said this was a 172.

Some are. So I have to ask.


Without me having to go to the TCs and do a search, can somebody please
tell me what series of 172s were injected?



Anyhow, if so it may be linked to a problem in the fuel pump.


And again the models of 172s that have fuel pumps?


Jim

Carb heat was on for at least a minute or two (applied late downwind, and
the engine quit only in the flare on landing).

I'm not trying to say I know what caused it, just that I struggle to
understand how it could be carb ice with heat on, at prox freezing plus a
couple degrees, and with carb heat apparently working per runup indications.


"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carb ice, period!

If it was a fuel pump, mag, loose throttle stop, stuck lifters, etc.,
none of these things cure themselves after the engine stops. An iced
up air filter might melt off, but not in seconds... Carb ice is the one
thing that will clear within seconds inside of a warm engine once the
windmilling stops, which stops it pulling more cold air across the
venturi... . And a Lycoming will ice up... I had an engine on Fat
Albert go limp at 11,500 feet over top of the Detroit B on a winter
day, and it was 25 degrees at our altitude...
A few years back I lost an old high school classmate from Caro,
Michigan when he went for a student night flight in a Cherokee, iced up
and then stalled it before he got to the ground...

Claiming it couldn't be carb ice because it was too cold, dry, hot, up,
down, left, right, is wishful thinking.... In spring and fall get the
carb heat on early, lean it out aggressively before pulling the
throttle, and goose the engine every 20 seconds to keep it warm...

denny

I maintained low power (maybe 1300 RPM) on final, but not idle. Approaching
the runway (was simulating a short field landing) and clearing the
ubiquitous 50 ft. obstacle, I cut power to idle and dropped my last notch of
flaps. It was a matter of several seconds from this point to flare and the
engine quitting.

I would think that at low speed (prox 60 kts approach), moderate temps (just
above freezing... all is relative ;-) and 1300 RPM (and carb heat applied)
there would be enough heat to ward off carb ice, but I'm admittedly short on
experience with this sort of thing.

"nrp" wrote in message
oups.com...
I agree it is probably carb ice & a remelt situation. My 150 hp 172M
will actually ice up to a limit quite quickly under the right
conditions. Note that OP probably had a very low power approach over
his obstacle in which case there would be little heat available for the
carb heat stove.

Those who say Lycomings won't ice up just haven't encountered the right
conditions - yet.

In article ,
"Jase Vanover" wrote:



Carb heat had been on since downwind. I was taught to put carb heat on as
part of my downwind checks every time, when doing manouvers at lower
throttle settings, and approximately every 15 minutes during cruise... which
I'm pretty faithful to. It is also standard part of my runup (both at 1700
RPM and at idle).

This was my third circuit. Carb heat was applied during downwind for all
three of them.

You make a good point that when I did my shutdown after restarting, I didn't
have carb heat on, so the engine not quiting and showing 800-900 could be
because carb heat wasn't on... though it didn't quit on my first two
landings either.


Carb ice is funny sometimes. Was doing a bunch of T&Gs in a 152. As
you, Carb Heat on downwind, push it off after pushing the throttle in on
takeoff. On my 7th or 8th "GO" the engine lost power and ran rough at
about 300' and quit as I made a right 270 back to the intersecting
runway. Made the runway, got a restart after a few moments, it ran real
rough for a bit then smoothed out. Shop checked it and found nothing
wrong, we assume it was carb ice.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Carb ice is funny sometimes. Was doing a bunch of T&Gs in a 152. As
you, Carb Heat on downwind, push it off after pushing the throttle in on
takeoff. On my 7th or 8th "GO" the engine lost power and ran rough at
about 300' and quit as I made a right 270 back to the intersecting
runway. Made the runway, got a restart after a few moments, it ran real
rough for a bit then smoothed out. Shop checked it and found nothing
wrong, we assume it was carb ice.

More likely the engine had loaded up with raw fuel. With carb
heat on, the mixture gets pretty rich, and with the throttle closed
there is very little airflow through the engine. Fuel can puddle in the
intake manifold, and upon opening the throttle all that gasoline is
sucked into the cylinders and floods them. It's worse if you shut the
carb heat off first, as the cold air reduces the vaporization of the
fuel.
Don't make long power-off glides when it's cold and with carb
heat on. Clear the engine often, and make sure it's ready to run if you
need it.

Dan

wrote

Don't make long power-off glides when it's cold and with carb
heat on. Clear the engine often, and make sure it's ready to run if you
need it.


That sure is different than the normal advice, isn't it?
--
Jim in NC

In article .com,
wrote:



More likely the engine had loaded up with raw fuel. With carb
heat on, the mixture gets pretty rich, and with the throttle closed
there is very little airflow through the engine. Fuel can puddle in the
intake manifold, and upon opening the throttle all that gasoline is
sucked into the cylinders and floods them. It's worse if you shut the
carb heat off first, as the cold air reduces the vaporization of the
fuel.
Don't make long power-off glides when it's cold and with carb
heat on. Clear the engine often, and make sure it's ready to run if you
need it.


No that isn't what happened. It was fine for the first couple hundered
feet of the climb. If it had loaded up it would have stumbled as I
added power.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Tom" wrote in message
...
An A&P and/or IA made a mistake working on a engine? To hear them tell,
they are the "experts" and you should never work on your own plane nor
should you be anywhere within 100 miles of the shop when they work on
them.


AMEs think anything accessible to a pilot is controlled by an idiot.
Pilots think that AMEs are trying to kill them.
A schizophrenic is a pilot who is also an AME

Happy landings,

Sigh.

Jim
Comm'l. Inst. CFI Airplane & Glider
A&P IA

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I.



"Private" wrote in message
news:40R8f.336700$oW2.18373@pd7tw1no...

AMEs think anything accessible to a pilot is controlled by an idiot.
Pilots think that AMEs are trying to kill them.
A schizophrenic is a pilot who is also an AME

cheers, ROTFL

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Sigh.

Jim
Comm'l. Inst. CFI Airplane & Glider
A&P IA

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I.



"Private" wrote in message
news:40R8f.336700$oW2.18373@pd7tw1no...

AMEs think anything accessible to a pilot is controlled by an idiot.
Pilots think that AMEs are trying to kill them.
A schizophrenic is a pilot who is also an AME