light planes collide over Seattle?

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I do know that ground operations at Renton differ from what almost all
student pilots are taught about operations at a controlled airport.

How so? I'm going to Renton in September.

Huh. I thought I'd posted a post with this information. Maybe I decided
not to, 'cause I don't see it.

Anyway, at Renton only the runway is controlled. The entire remainder of
the airport is a "non-movement area", which means you can move freely about
without any advice or instruction from ATC. It's essentially a non-towered
airport, until you get to the runway.

Though, I thought they put that information in the A/FD and it doesn't
appear to be there now. Probably want to double-check with the tower after
landing, before you go taxiing across the airport without a ground control
clearance.

Pete

In article . com,
wet his bed, grabbed an ear of corn and oinked:

Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?


Go to hell, "jgrove"! You are acting like a ghoul and jumping with glee
over someone's death.

No -- it DOESN'T make the Meigs closure look sounder, as that action
concentrates, rather than disperses traffic.

Seth Masia wrote:
Both of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the tower should
have been watching out for both of them.

My guess is, some attorney will say the exact same thing!

wrote in news:1123261687.096684.52900
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Snipola
Polarized sunglasses anyone?

Put on a pair of polarized glasses and stare at the sun,
then tell us how much you can see.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

There is no separate pattern, and as far as I know no one who operates in
and out of Renton considers the seaplane base to be separate in any way from
the airport. The Beaver was on downwind for runway 33, intending (according
to news reports) to fly down the runway to the north end and then land in
the water. This is a fairly typical float plane operation at Renton. If you
are suggesting that he should have made a pattern north of the runway,
between it and Mercer Island, it would appear that you know nothing about
float planes.

And, just to save some bandwidth, the school was being torn down because it
contained asbestos...that fact is complicating the examination of the 150's
wreckage because he NTSB folks have to suit up to avoid breathing asbestos
dust.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for Renton
and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate pattern for
Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of the Renton runway.
Both of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the tower
should have been watching out for both of them.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Oh yeah. We had 0.7 inches of rain in July, and none since the first of
August...the next week or ten days are forecast to be dry, too.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
ups.com...
Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?

JG

Well, actually, I got my floatplane rating at Renton, and we often flew an
entirely separate pattern out over the lake, typically approaching overwater
from the north and turning an appropriate downwind at some altitude below
the Renton traffic pattern.

That was a dozen years ago; maybe practices have changed there.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
There is no separate pattern, and as far as I know no one who operates in
and out of Renton considers the seaplane base to be separate in any way
from the airport. The Beaver was on downwind for runway 33, intending
(according to news reports) to fly down the runway to the north end and
then land in the water. This is a fairly typical float plane operation at
Renton. If you are suggesting that he should have made a pattern north of
the runway, between it and Mercer Island, it would appear that you know
nothing about float planes.

And, just to save some bandwidth, the school was being torn down because
it contained asbestos...that fact is complicating the examination of the
150's wreckage because he NTSB folks have to suit up to avoid breathing
asbestos dust.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for
Renton and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate
pattern for Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of the Renton
runway. Both of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the
tower should have been watching out for both of them.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Oh yeah. We had 0.7 inches of rain in July, and none since the first of
August...the next week or ten days are forecast to be dry, too.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
ups.com...
Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?

JG

Second try: A dozen years ago I got my floatplane rating at Renton, with
Sound Flight. When approaching from any direction but south, we typically
flew a separate pattern out over the lake, below the Renton traffic
pattern -- especially when the wind was strong. Safest way to land a
floatplane, of course, is dead into the wind, so the pattern rarely conforms
to the runway box. Maybe procedures have changed since then.

And let's hear a round of applause for the Beaver pilot, who put it down
safely on the grass in spite of having his floats apparently distorted about
30 degrees off center.

I've encountered ad hominem attacks on other newsgroups and they invariably
poison the utility of the information exchange.

Seth
N8100R

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
There is no separate pattern, and as far as I know no one who operates in
and out of Renton considers the seaplane base to be separate in any way
from the airport. The Beaver was on downwind for runway 33, intending
(according to news reports) to fly down the runway to the north end and
then land in the water. This is a fairly typical float plane operation at
Renton. If you are suggesting that he should have made a pattern north of
the runway, between it and Mercer Island, it would appear that you know
nothing about float planes.

And, just to save some bandwidth, the school was being torn down because
it contained asbestos...that fact is complicating the examination of the
150's wreckage because he NTSB folks have to suit up to avoid breathing
asbestos dust.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting floatplanes
over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the pattern for
Renton and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a separate
pattern for Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of the Renton
runway. Both of these guys should have been talking to the tower and the
tower should have been watching out for both of them.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Oh yeah. We had 0.7 inches of rain in July, and none since the first of
August...the next week or ten days are forecast to be dry, too.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
ups.com...
Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?

JG

Full disclosure...I got my float rating at Kenmore, after doing some
training in Lake Union (and Juneau, but that's another story). Never used
Renton for a water landing even once. You are 100 percent correct in noting
that the seaplane base has a separate pattern, west of the final for Renton,
and I deserve the blowhard award of the year for saying otherwise. However,
note that on the sectional, the RTN Class D encompasses the seaplane base.

Fred Bahr has been flying for 45 years, mostly in this area, and is very
active in instructor safety meetings. If he wants to overfly the pavement on
his way to the water, that's fine with me...I have observed many other float
plane pilots doing the same thing.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
Well, actually, I got my floatplane rating at Renton, and we often flew an
entirely separate pattern out over the lake, typically approaching
overwater from the north and turning an appropriate downwind at some
altitude below the Renton traffic pattern.

That was a dozen years ago; maybe practices have changed there.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
There is no separate pattern, and as far as I know no one who operates in
and out of Renton considers the seaplane base to be separate in any way
from the airport. The Beaver was on downwind for runway 33, intending
(according to news reports) to fly down the runway to the north end and
then land in the water. This is a fairly typical float plane operation at
Renton. If you are suggesting that he should have made a pattern north of
the runway, between it and Mercer Island, it would appear that you know
nothing about float planes.

And, just to save some bandwidth, the school was being torn down because
it contained asbestos...that fact is complicating the examination of the
150's wreckage because he NTSB folks have to suit up to avoid breathing
asbestos dust.

Bob Gardner

"Seth Masia" wrote in message
...
The AP report is very sensible.

This accident reminds me of last week's thread about spotting
floatplanes over Lake Sammamish. In this case the Cessna was in the
pattern for Renton and looking into the sun -- but the Beaver was in a
separate pattern for Wiley Post, the seaplane base off the north end of
the Renton runway. Both of these guys should have been talking to the
tower and the tower should have been watching out for both of them.

Seth
N8100R


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Oh yeah. We had 0.7 inches of rain in July, and none since the first of
August...the next week or ten days are forecast to be dry, too.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
ups.com...
Oh, Boy and this is rainy Seattle. Makes the M..gs closure look
sounder
every day.
Uncle Bobby RIP.

And that was SPLAT into a SCHOOL BUILDING.

Polarized sunglasses anyone?

JG

"Andrew Gideon" wrote

That's going to cost us.

The school was empty, and was undergoing asbestos abatement. It was stated
for demolition.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Andrew Gideon" wrote
That's going to cost us.
The school was empty, and was undergoing asbestos abatement. It was stated
for demolition.

do you really think journalists will bother to check that out,
or even if they did, to report it? which is going to sell
more paper? 'little plane crashes into derelict/unoccupied
building' or 'little plane crashes into *school*' ?

--Sylvain