Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

Descending into a leg of the pattern is generally considered to be less
than safe
due to the risk of a collision. It's a little less dangerous when the
descending
aircraft is a high-wing, but it's still frowned upon.

While what you say is true, I have tried the "overhead break" on occasion,
and found it to be a very good way to see the entire pattern before entry.
It's also a lot of fun.

On the other hand, it's always the one you *don't* see that kills you, and
ground clutter can make spotting traffic difficult, so descending into the
pattern can be dangerous. To reduce this risk, I've tried entering the
pattern for this kind of an "overhead break" just 100 or so feet above
"normal" pattern altitude. This seemed to be a good compromise, minimized
the amount of time spent descending into a possible conflict, while still
allowing for a good scan of the whole pattern.

Is it still dangerous? I would rate it as mildly more risky than the more
standard "entering on a 45," and slightly less risky than a long
straight-in. Therefore, I don't use this approach when I know there is
other traffic in the pattern.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

While what you say is true, I have tried the "overhead break" on occasion,
and found it to be a very good way to see the entire pattern before entry.

I didn't know that there was any other entry for the first
18 months of my flying life. :-)

Bob Moore

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of turns.

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)

--
Mike

In article ,
"Harry Shin" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
Now, Harry, did YOU announce YOUR entry into the pattern? I realize that
it is not required, but it IS good practice.

Orval,

First sentence (!), "My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69),
called in on the 45 to downwind..." (and all other legs as well, FWIW)

You formation guys need to pay more attention...

Harry


Harry:

If that is your attitude, maybe YOU need to adjust YOUR attitude!

If you called the 45, you were NOT in the traffic pattern! Did you pay
attention to the frequency? Did the formation call "initial"?

I have seen so-called "pattern operations" flying extra wide downwinds
and two mile finals -- enough to land several flights of four.
Generally, our formation flights keep it in tight and have about ten
seconds spacing on landing.

BTW, your reference to "spoiling a formation landing" shows you know
nothing about formation flying. They came overhead in the break and, as
such, would have been landing individually, with one rolling out as the
next touched down.

Mike O'Malley wrote:


Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)



Am I misreading something, or do the Canadians frown on the "45 to
downwind" approach at uncontrolled airports, (unless traffic advisory is
available)???

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/an...new197.htm#MF2

quote:
Basically, when airport and traffic advisory information is not
available, regardless of whether MF procedures are in effect or not,
aircraft should not join 45% to the downwind leg, straight-in to the
base or final leg of the circuit. The correct entry procedure to be
used, therefore, depends on whether airport and traffic advisory is
available or not."

"Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
...

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is
paraphrased
from memory).


It isn't. The 45 degree entry to the downwind is illegal.

For those arriving on the non-pattern side of the runway its the best
way to do it. Its also important to do if the winds are unknown
(because you can see the sock). The maneuver should be done above
pattern altitude, with a long right turn (assuming left traffic) into
the 45. The overhead entry "should" always drop you into the 45.


"Harry Shin" wrote in message ...
Hi Guys,

My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69), called in on the 45 to
downwind and were just about to turn downwind when a flight of three
experimentals called in that they were set up for their "overhead entry".
They were flying above pattern altitude on the runway heading, proceeded to
make a diving 180 turn to downwind, inside our line.

Two of them jumped ahead of us, while the third resigned himself to
following our Citabria. I guess we really messed up their spectacular
approach and possible formation landing... (yawn)

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
"approved"? Petaluma can get pretty busy on weekends, and I feel their
grandstanding lead to some concern and un-necessary avoidance manuevering...

Harry Shin
Citabria N5064K, Sonerai I 'a building

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...
For those arriving on the non-pattern side of the runway its the best
way to do it. Its also important to do if the winds are unknown
(because you can see the sock). The maneuver should be done above
pattern altitude, with a long right turn (assuming left traffic) into
the 45. The overhead entry "should" always drop you into the 45.

That's not the typical overhead entry. The overhead entry is an upwind leg
with a 180 degree left turn (assuming left hand traffic) to the downwind
leg.



"Harry Shin" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

My father and I were returning to Petaluma (O69), called in on the 45 to
downwind and were just about to turn downwind when a flight of three
experimentals called in that they were set up for their "overhead
entry".
They were flying above pattern altitude on the runway heading, proceeded
to
make a diving 180 turn to downwind, inside our line.

Two of them jumped ahead of us, while the third resigned himself to
following our Citabria. I guess we really messed up their spectacular
approach and possible formation landing... (yawn)

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field
is
"approved"? Petaluma can get pretty busy on weekends, and I feel their
grandstanding lead to some concern and un-necessary avoidance
manuevering...

Harry Shin
Citabria N5064K, Sonerai I 'a building

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the
pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.


The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

Mike O'Malley wrote:

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is paraphrased
from memory).

The 45 entry to downwind is not "in the pattern". It is the entry to the pattern
and does nopt have to be a left turn.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."