ELT Mandatory ?

Romeo Delta wrote:
Dirk Elber wrote in message


Thank you KG, UH and others for making those many safety talks about the
advantages of having an ELT installed and how best to install them in
the various types of gliders.


I'm sure that the fact that KG and UH sell these things has no bearing
on the matter at all, eh?

If you think their claims are false, please say so and indicate why.
Insinuating that greed drives their efforts is gratuitous; besides, I'm
not aware that UH (Hank Nixon) sells soaring equipment.

If they believe these things are useful to the soaring community, it
makes sense to offer them. Or should they refuse to sell safety related
items, so suspicious pilots will be inclined to think they mean it when
they say the items are useful?

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Mr. Greenwell:

Please be advised that I just used the ammo provided by the previous
poster. Certainly you must agree that it's only human nature to turn
up the sales pitch just a notch when justifying the need for something
that you just so happen to sell--hence, my voiced scepticism. I'm sure
KG is a big boy and can handle it. UH was unfortunately fragged by
association--a thousand pardons.

To say it another way, I, for one, am not otherwise convinced that
anyone who sells such "stuff" for a living preaches about it solely
out of the goodness of his heart (which was my take of the post
previous to my former). To place someone up on a pedistal for doing
so is professing naivity.

Regardless, the bottom line is an ELT, from an operational
perspective, is OPTIONAL equipment. If some private airport owner
feels justified in his mind for whatever reason to require ELTs as a
condition to fly from his airfield--then that's his business (as well
the business of any pilots accepting of such dictation), except that
such nonsense is capable of permeating out to affect the soaring
community as a whole at which time it is past the point of becoming
everyone's business.

So pardon me if I voice my concern at this potential eventuality.
Soaring is expensive enough without some yea-hoo in VA starting a
costly trend on a whim. What's the next mandate to enjoy the
SIMPLICITY of soaring? Transponders, weather radar, radar altimeters?

If this pilot makes the conscience choice to fly without an ELT, it is
done so at MY accepted peril. Matter of fact, every time I have ever
made the decision to takeoff [solo] it has always been and will
continue to be at MY own personal peril. And I don't take lightly
anyone's attempt to usurp the experience, ability, and authority I
have to make such a decision.

I'm sorry that someone crashed while flying a contest (BTW having an
ELT apparently didn't stop that from happening). But should that
necessarily result in mandating we all should now run out and buy ELTs
[as a condition to compete in a soaring contest]? Maybe we should
just not task flying near mountains. Heck, let's just stop flying
altogether 'cause it's inherently dangerous. No thousand dollar piece
of equipment can change that fact.

RD

In article , Jim Culp
writes


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim



What a lovely post! But do you really not want your friends to worry if
you land out somewhere inhospitable?

Or, to put it another way, if one of your friends went soaring in the
mountains, and wasn't back by dark, would you just say 'Tough. He should
have thought of that. He can take care of himself'?

Bet you wouldn't.
--
Mike Lindsay

While we are condemming the irresponsible ELT requirement, let us also
attack the requirement for parachutes. After all, it should be a matter of
choice whether a pilot wishes to go down with the ship. Peter Marske was
wearing a parachute and it did not save him. Whether this dictatorial act
is required by the SSA or the local organizer is irrelevant.

There are other issues which can be brought up too. Seat belts should not
be mandatory, since they only affect the pilot. And compass, airspeed
indicators and altimeters - who needs them. Even the requirement for a
license from the FAA infringes my guaranteed right to fly. Power pilots are
thrust into these irresponsible requirements too, such as radios,
transponders, ELTs and collision avoidance beacons. I could see the entire
matter going downhill when the FAA grounded one of the flyers in the
California to Hawaii (Dole) races about 75 years ago, because the pilot only
had enough fuel to make it 1/2 way across. Maybe that was the point we lost
our freedom as pilots.

Suppose the owners of Kitty Hawk had mandated an ELT be used by the Wright
Brothers. The radio in those days would have weighed about 400 pounds and
required spark gaps, motors, and heavy batteries. Flying would not have
been invented until about 1916.

Colin


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We need to keep in mind that an ELT mainly helps the searchers after an
aircraft goes missing. Searching for a missing aircraft is dangerous, hard
work. If we respect those who must do this, (and we should) then carrying
an ELT seems a modest gesture of appreciation.

However, I think it is pretty rare that a pilot has been found alive after a
successful search based solely on an ELT signal. If the pilot is alive,
there will likely be a radio or cell phone call letting people know the
situation.

With the above in mind, the benefits of an ELT apply in a fairly narrow set
of conditions. (Fatal crash, ELT activates, search ensues.) Perhaps then,
another electronic safety aid would better serve us. For example, how about
a GPS tracker that broadcasts the glider's location and altitude at short
intervals to a ground based network that allows it to be recorded at the
contest site. This way the contest organizers can watch over the fleet in
real-time. If a track stops the who, what, where and when of the situation
will be obvious.

Consider the more likely situation where a glider makes a safe landing in a
remote area and the pilot for whatever reason does not manually activate the
ELT. The tracker would only alert the people who need to know without
initiating a formal downed aircraft search. If we are going to mandate
something, a tracker seems a better idea.

It would also make glider contests more of a spectator sport.

Bill Daniels