Fatal crash Arizona

Premature termination of the tow at 100ft. Did not complete the turn back to the runway.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/0...izona.html?m=1

Boggs

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 9:27:10 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
Premature termination of the tow at 100ft. Did not complete the turn back to the runway.



http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/0...izona.html?m=1



Boggs

UPDATE..... http://www.abc15.com/news/region-cen...a-glider-crash

Glider was a Zuni. Crash not observed by any glider pilots. Tow pilot felt the sudden lack of pull behind him, circled back and observed the wreckage a bit east of the runway among homes and bushes. Bummer day.

Retired Major General Robert Knauff had nearly 4,000 hours flight time, but was fairly new to soaring. He bought his Zuni last year, was checked out and did his first flight at Tucson Soaring Club. In the past week, he flew four decent cross-country flights from Sampley's airport and was reportedly really getting into flying it.

No club members witnessed the accident, but it occurred after a presumably unintentional tow release at around 100 feet.

Article from his home town he

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...der_crash.html

Mike

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:27:10 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
Premature termination of the tow at 100ft. Did not complete the turn back to the runway.

My sympathy to everyone touched by this tragedy.

Turning 180 back to the runway from only 100 feet AGL is unusual. I wonder why he did that.

On Monday, May 5, 2014 3:16:03 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:27:10 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:

Premature termination of the tow at 100ft. Did not complete the turn back to the runway.



My sympathy to everyone touched by this tragedy.


Because it was not adequately drilled into his head during training and subsequent retraining that you can't make that turn back safely.
UH

On Monday, May 5, 2014 3:30:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Because it was not adequately drilled into his head during training and subsequent retraining that you can't make that turn back safely.

Will the NTSB look in his log book for a self-induced PTOT(aka simulated PTOT for training purposes)?

On Monday, May 5, 2014 4:13:02 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, May 5, 2014 3:30:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:



Because it was not adequately drilled into his head during training and subsequent retraining that you can't make that turn back safely.



Will the NTSB look in his log book for a self-induced PTOT(aka simulated PTOT for training purposes)?

What is it you are describing?
UH

I have flown into and out of Sampley's a few times. The terrain at Sampley's rises to the east and falls to the west. Heading west, you are over slightly falling terrain with open fields for landing. On an easterly departure, you may be at an indicated 200 feet above take-off but may only be 100' over terrain. Straight-ahead landing options are not very enticing to the east once you've passed the end of the strip, so a turn back from an indicated 200' may seem like the best option.

Since we have no direct eyewitness reports, we don't know how high he was at disconnect, but Sampley's towplane is a powerful and fast climber.

The Zuni was equipped with a logger, so maybe that will throw some more light onto it.

A bit of a shadow on us all.

Mike

In doing some research last night I sadly came upon another fatal glider accident that also happened at Aguila, AZ. This occurred 8 years ago to the day in 2006. The NTSB report is at this URL:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...10X00545&key=1

In a strange twist of fate this accident also occurred on May 3 and it also happened during the early portion of the launch when the glider reached approx 150 feet on tow.

Let's all hope that important lessons are learned and that everyone can be more aware and better prepared in case of a problem early in a launch.

Thx - Renny



On Monday, May 5, 2014 11:07:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, May 5, 2014 8:17:31 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:

On Monday, May 5, 2014 1:38:32 PM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:



I have flown into and out of Sampley's a few times. The terrain at Sampley's rises to the east and falls to the west. Heading west, you are over slightly falling terrain with open fields for landing. On an easterly departure, you may be at an indicated 200 feet above take-off but may only be 100' over terrain. Straight-ahead landing options are not very enticing to the east once you've passed the end of the strip, so a turn back from an indicated 200' may seem like the best option.











Minor correction: Sampley runs North-South, with takeoffs invariably uphill to the South. South gets slowly higher until some hills (all raw desert), North gently slopes down to the center of the valley (mostly agricultural fields - all landable).







Not too many good options if PTT is really low taking off to the South; you pretty much have to either get back to the runway or accept a desert landing.







Sad.







Kirk



66



I took off about 15 minutes ahead of Bob (was 1st in line and he was 3rd).. There were the usual bumpy spots (up and down gusts) in the first 50 or so feet AGL and then the usual booming lift at the end of the runway. As we got to the end of the runway we were lower than I had experienced previously there, and I have probably 10 years of flying from there. The tow plane was running fine, it just seemed like we towed through some bumpy sinking air til the big boomer at the runway end.



One of the pilots made the comment Saturday evening that the release on a Zuni could "self release / back release" without pilot input.... it was not a Tost, and required the big ring. If that is correct, the bumpy air down low could have caused yo-yo effect and an inadverdant release. That would have probably put Bob in the sinking air around the big lift at the end of the runway about the time of release To me, the only options would have been straight ahead, either hopefully on what was left of the runway or into the bushes past the end. Other than "south of Cliff's hanger" I don't know how far down the runway he was when he crashed / how much, if any runway was left in front of him. Wind on the ground at the north end of the runway, where we were staged was 5-15 mph SSW.



Whenever I take off I constantly calculate where I would have to go if the rope were to break, and, as I was lower than usual that day, I was looking at that. A damaged or totaled glider is still better than taking a chance on a stall-spin. My count to 200 ft. AGL) lasted until we had been in the boomer past the runway end for a few seconds. If Bob had been in exactly the same air, any release before the runway end, he would have been under 100'AGL.



I enjoyed my conversations with Bob before we gridded, and thinking of him now gives me an erie feeling. Such a nice guy, happy with gliding, and willing and eager to learn more about desert flying. But, in the end, what can be said other than it was just his time to go. Yes, gliding is dangerous. I've been into soaring since 1996 and he was the 7th I've known to be called to the other side.



We try to learn from others' mistakes, but in this case, as there were no glider pilots who observed the event, little can be learned.



My heart goes out to his family and friends.



Bob T

On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 6:38:20 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
In doing some research last night I sadly came upon another fatal glider accident that also happened at Aguila, AZ. This occurred 8 years ago to the day in 2006. The NTSB report is at this URL:



http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...10X00545&key=1



In a strange twist of fate this accident also occurred on May 3 and it also happened during the early portion of the launch when the glider reached approx 150 feet on tow.



Let's all hope that important lessons are learned and that everyone can be more aware and better prepared in case of a problem early in a launch.



Thx - Renny







On Monday, May 5, 2014 11:07:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:

On Monday, May 5, 2014 8:17:31 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:



On Monday, May 5, 2014 1:38:32 PM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:







I have flown into and out of Sampley's a few times. The terrain at Sampley's rises to the east and falls to the west. Heading west, you are over slightly falling terrain with open fields for landing. On an easterly departure, you may be at an indicated 200 feet above take-off but may only be 100' over terrain. Straight-ahead landing options are not very enticing to the east once you've passed the end of the strip, so a turn back from an indicated 200' may seem like the best option.























Minor correction: Sampley runs North-South, with takeoffs invariably uphill to the South. South gets slowly higher until some hills (all raw desert), North gently slopes down to the center of the valley (mostly agricultural fields - all landable).















Not too many good options if PTT is really low taking off to the South; you pretty much have to either get back to the runway or accept a desert landing.















Sad.















Kirk







66







I took off about 15 minutes ahead of Bob (was 1st in line and he was 3rd). There were the usual bumpy spots (up and down gusts) in the first 50 or so feet AGL and then the usual booming lift at the end of the runway. As we got to the end of the runway we were lower than I had experienced previously there, and I have probably 10 years of flying from there. The tow plane was running fine, it just seemed like we towed through some bumpy sinking air til the big boomer at the runway end.







One of the pilots made the comment Saturday evening that the release on a Zuni could "self release / back release" without pilot input.... it was not a Tost, and required the big ring. If that is correct, the bumpy air down low could have caused yo-yo effect and an inadverdant release. That would have probably put Bob in the sinking air around the big lift at the end of the runway about the time of release To me, the only options would have been straight ahead, either hopefully on what was left of the runway or into the bushes past the end. Other than "south of Cliff's hanger" I don't know how far down the runway he was when he crashed / how much, if any runway was left in front of him. Wind on the ground at the north end of the runway, where we were staged was 5-15 mph SSW.







Whenever I take off I constantly calculate where I would have to go if the rope were to break, and, as I was lower than usual that day, I was looking at that. A damaged or totaled glider is still better than taking a chance on a stall-spin. My count to 200 ft. AGL) lasted until we had been in the boomer past the runway end for a few seconds. If Bob had been in exactly the same air, any release before the runway end, he would have been under 100'AGL.







I enjoyed my conversations with Bob before we gridded, and thinking of him now gives me an erie feeling. Such a nice guy, happy with gliding, and willing and eager to learn more about desert flying. But, in the end, what can be said other than it was just his time to go. Yes, gliding is dangerous. I've been into soaring since 1996 and he was the 7th I've known to be called to the other side.







We try to learn from others' mistakes, but in this case, as there were no glider pilots who observed the event, little can be learned.







My heart goes out to his family and friends.







Bob T

Interesting coincidence... same date, same place. But, the similarities stop there. Russ's 2006 crash was due to medical event reasons. While in line to fly he did not feel good and considered backing out. As the line got shorter he changed his mind. There are a number of medical issues and pharmaceutical issues that I won't get into, but he just shouldn't have even tried to fly that day.

In talking with Tom Knauff (no relation to Bob Knauff that I know of) a few months ago, he commented that he was shocked at the number of fatal accidents that involved medical and / or pharmaceutical issues.

And, perhaps for superstitious reasons it might not be a good thing for glider ops on May 3, 2015 at Samply airport?