U.K. near-midairs

"Jack" wrote in message
om...
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs
in the second half of last year, safety investigators
said recently, noting that newer models fly at high
altitudes without transponders and are hard to see,
both visually and on radar...."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600


e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm

Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!!

Peter.

Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote:
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs

The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is
certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC
in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs
call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd
guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft,
and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it
a near-midair.

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant
pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more
ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result
in hundreds of deaths...

So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell
how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair
that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach.
I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders
in gliders is a solution looking for a problem.

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

in the second half of last year, safety investigators
said recently, noting that newer models fly at high
altitudes without transponders and are hard to see,
both visually and on radar...."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600


e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm

Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!!

Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider.
These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least
some info...

I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Marc

Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan


Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There
was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing
seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The
missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4
at the local AFB.

Bill Daniels

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:41a63818$1@darkstar...
Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote:
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs


In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.


How hard have you looked?

Ask Chip Gardner how far he was from an airport when he got hit.


So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell
how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair
that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach.
I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders
in gliders is a solution looking for a problem.



A few years ago an AmericaWest airliner 30 miles out of Phoenix nearly hit a
glider. A flight attendant had her leg broken during the rapid evasive
manuever.

Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider.
These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least
some info...

I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I wasn't thinking about the big jets but the person in the PA28 etc. who
uses our NDB as a turning point at 2000 ft. The beacon is in the middle of
the airfield we use as our gliding club base. The area is marked as an area
of intense gliding activity and the airfield is marked with cables. We've
had a couple of near thing over the airfield.

Peter.

you know you are close.. when you can hear the other powerplane go by you..
and you have not seen it.. and when you do find him after he's past.. you
realize that the sun angles as he approached you.. he never saw you either..

BT

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:41a63818$1@darkstar...
Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote:
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs

The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is
certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC
in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs
call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd
guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft,
and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it
a near-midair.

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant
pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more
ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result
in hundreds of deaths...

So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell
how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair
that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach.
I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders
in gliders is a solution looking for a problem.

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

in the second half of last year, safety investigators
said recently, noting that newer models fly at high
altitudes without transponders and are hard to see,
both visually and on radar...."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600


e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm

Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!!

Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider.
These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least
some info...

I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

At 20:30 25 November 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:

Another possibility is a radar reflector installed
in the glider.
These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and
would give at least
some info...

I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has
one that would fit
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Boating stores sell radar reflectors made of cardboard
and covered with aluminum foil. They are in three
parts and can be disassembled. When put together they
make a sphere about 12-14 inches across and they provide
the 3D right triangles that are supposed to reflect
a signal back.

I inquired about their use in gliders (practically
no weight and could go in fuselage behind wing) and
someone told me they would not give a strong enough
signal for aircraft use owing to the speeds involved.
I have no idea about the validity of this statement.
Couldn't hurt to try it.

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:17:14 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan


Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There
was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing
seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The
missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4
at the local AFB.

That would be Donn Shearn, in 1975. The F4 was being vectored onto the
COS localizer, slow, nose up, pilot seat cranked down behind the
glareshield, and the pilot never knew he'd hit anything until a ground
crewman ponted to the wheel as he taxied in.

A busload of Air Force officers arrived at BFGP two days later to
investigate, and the first thing they saw was CSA's 1-34, N1171S,
crashing in the trees at the north end. I watched that one too...worst
case of thought processes stopping under pressure you could imagine.
The guy hit thirty feet up a tree a good 200 yards short of the
runway, with at least 3/4 spoiler on.

Anyway, the gubmint finally wrote a check for $94 to replace the wheel
three years later.

rj