U.K. near-midairs

Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Apr 20, 1986: LS-4 vs. A-7

I've read some others between military and civilian airplanes,
but I haven't found any more glider vs. airplane.

And as far as being on an MTR while there is a NOTAM for its use,
well, I once wandered into an active artillery range too.
When the tree branches started falling off, there was no mystery there.

I'd like to hear about other glider vs. airplane not near an airport,
if others have references...

And thanks to Marc for this one...
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Mark J. Boyd

Nyal Williams wrote:

I inquired about their use in gliders (practically
no weight and could go in fuselage behind wing) and
someone told me they would not give a strong enough
signal for aircraft use owing to the speeds involved.
I have no idea about the validity of this statement.
Couldn't hurt to try it.

I'll let you know...
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Mark J. Boyd

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:41a77ce7$1@darkstar...
Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Apr 20, 1986: LS-4 vs. A-7

I've read some others between military and civilian airplanes,
but I haven't found any more glider vs. airplane.

And as far as being on an MTR while there is a NOTAM for its use,
well, I once wandered into an active artillery range too.
When the tree branches started falling off, there was no mystery there.

I'd like to hear about other glider vs. airplane not near an airport,
if others have references...

And thanks to Marc for this one...
--

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Mark J. Boyd

George Thelen has one, F-4 at an estimated three foot separation. IIRC,
that's what really got him into writing about safety for Soaring.

Frank Whiteley

Nyal Williams wrote:
I'm sure I've seen an article about anti-collision
radar available for corporate aircraft. I believe
that they are available, but am unsure how prevalent
they are. There was some comment about this in AOPA(?)
mag a couple of years ago.

It's called TCAS (Traffic Alert/Collision Avoidance System). It's not
radar based, it broadcasts an interrogation signal which causes any
nearby transponders to respond. It calculates range and bearing to
transponders that respond, and shows them on a display in the cockpit.
If there appears to be the threat of collision, it sounds an alarm. If
the other aircraft is TCAS equipped, the two units actually negotiate an
avoidance strategy, then advise the pilots how to maneuver away from the
other aircraft.

Marc

Mark James Boyd wrote:

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane
collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't
remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence.

I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how
far it was from the airport.
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Ralph Jones wrote:

Signal strength is not the problem: a fiberglass ship with a one-foot
corner reflector inside it will look bigger than a metal sailplane.
The bad news: air traffic control radars are "moving target" systems,
which means they filter out returns that don't have any Doppler shift
to indicate a moving object. I don't know what the minimum detectable
speed is, but if you're under it, they just won't see you.

This is quite variable, depending on the radar and the operator, but if
you present a bigger primary return, your chances are improved. The
filtering may be adjustable, so if you contact them by radio, they are
more likely to get you on the radar.


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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane
collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't
remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence.

I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how
far it was from the airport.
--
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA
That was the heads down Aero Commander that nearly sliced the Grob in half,
except the oxygen bottle deflected the wing tip upwards. The glider pilot
was flying without parachute, so his option was to fly gently back to
Truckee. IIRC, the bits were jiggling around a bit, but held together long
enough.

Frank Whiteley

I was training a young controller once.. and he kept calling out a primary
return as traffic.. slow moving south bound.. altitude unknown.. but I was
seeing more than one return on occasion..

So.. we asked the next pilot going up the airway if he could spot the
traffic... (clue, airway followed river valley north to south).. sure enough
the pilot reported a beautiful V formation of Ducks.. heading south for the
winter.. about 2000ft below his cruising altitude..

Water in the ducks bellies reflect the radar..

BT

"Charles Yeates" wrote in message
...
BTIZ wrote:

It could be your local Halifax controllers are not trying, have to many
filters turned on.. or are just not experienced in radar operation.


It is the filter settings -- they don't want to see birds {:))

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane
collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't
remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence.

Can't find this one in fatals/glider/state of washington on NTSB. Hmmm...
Looked for 1980 to 1999...


I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how
far it was from the airport.

3/31/1998, Grob 102 vs. Aero Commander 690, vicinity of the airport,
all uninjured

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


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Mark J. Boyd

BTIZ wrote:

you'd be better off stuffing in a transponder for their TCAS and for ATC to
really see you.

I think we all understand that putting in a transponder and a
big battery is a more complete solution. I think those
on this thread are simply looking at the lower tech, less expensive,
no recurrent certification alternatives.

At $50 and one pound, this looks pretty good. At $1000 and
10 pounds (including the extra battery) + $160/every two years,
I suspect we'd see fewer takers.

I personally also love the idea of the "star" multi-faceted
reflective tape. I despise the green and light grey color of
my current airplane, for example.

Cheap, passive, low cost solutions have a sort of engineering elegance,
don't you think?

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Mark J. Boyd