A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Owning
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Opinions on Cessna 340, 414 and 421



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old March 31st 04, 07:16 PM
john szpara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:52:29 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Since price was one of the requirements (probably the only critical one),
nothing fits.


Yup..."Beer budget with champagne tastes", or should I say "requirements"?.


There are several on trade-a-plane in my budget without run-out
engines (at least by the numbers) and wouldn't fall into the AD for
several years of flying.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT
  #32  
Old March 31st 04, 07:33 PM
Mike Rapoport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think that you need to start with the budget and see what is availible.
I'm not sure what the relevance of some of the other items is.

What is magical about 200kts? Why do you care if it will go fast at low
altitudes? If you are going any distance, you will be high and if you are
only going a short distance a faster cruising speed won't matter much.
Often, making an intersection departure will save more time than and
additional 20kts. 190kts or 210kts won't make much difference on even the
longest flight.

Why do you want a potty? They stink and YOU have to empty them. I have had
potty in my airplane for 6 yrs and it has never been used.

Why does it need to be "cabin class" unless it is eight seats or greater?

Your specs add up to a big, heavy airplane with a lot of frontal area. It
is going to require big, powerful, thirsty engines to pull it through the
air. All this is going to cost multiples of the proposed budget.

You may have great reasons for every spec but you need to narrow it down
quite a bit.

Mike
MU-2


"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:11:44 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

I don't think anything fits all those requirements.


Those are best case scenario. I figure I will have to give up one or
more things. But I may as well lay all the cards on the table, and
hope for the best hand.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT



  #33  
Old March 31st 04, 07:35 PM
Mike Rapoport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If his exposure is covered somehow then why wouldn't he? :-)

Mike
MU-2

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...
Gee Mike, if I point this out to my banker will he spring for a C-90 loan?
denny

"Mike Rapoport" The real point of my post
was that turbine engine failures are so rare that
even if every one resulted in a fatal accident, they would still have a
lower fatal accident rate then piston twins. It doesn't matter what

happens
after an engine failure if the engine doesn't fail in the first place.

So,
from an engine failure standpoint, you would probably be safer flying a

King
Air 90 without a multi rating than flying a Baron with annual simulator
training.





  #34  
Old March 31st 04, 07:41 PM
Mike Rapoport
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Those trips to FlightSafety will eat up a lot of that 20-30K per year
budget. It is a real commitment once you get an airplane that requires
simulator training unless you are fortunate enough to live near the sim
facility. If you go for two days at a time it will take at least four
including getting there and back. Twice a year is eight days which is a lot
of *estra* time to carve out of your annual schedule.

Mike
MU-2

"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...

Seems to me that in this class of used airplane the primary cost issue

isn't
purchase price but rather annual insurance and maintenance costs. Any
pressurized, cabin class twin you buy for $150K will probably require a

LOT
of maintenance! How much are you willing to spend annually to keep your
bird flying at peak safety levels? Are you willing to devote maybe a

week

I'm figuring $20-30k/year for 100 hours flying. Extra money would be
available for the (inevitable) unexpected. I won't even attempt to buy
unless the revenue stream is in place for it. I would also be using it
partly for my business.

(and several thousand dollars) every year for recurrent training?


Absolutely. I'm figuring one or two trips a year to Flightsafety.
Recurring training will be a given. I don't want to be a hack, weekend
pilot. I take it very seriously.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT



  #35  
Old March 31st 04, 07:42 PM
Tom Sixkiller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"john szpara" wrote in message
s.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:11:44 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

I don't think anything fits all those requirements.


Those are best case scenario. I figure I will have to give up one or
more things. But I may as well lay all the cards on the table, and
hope for the best hand.


The one that'll kick it into the higher price bracket is the potty, since
only the 421 has that feature available.





  #36  
Old March 31st 04, 09:02 PM
Ben Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article . net,
Mike Rapoport wrote:
It doesn't matter what happens
after an engine failure if the engine doesn't fail in the first place. So,
from an engine failure standpoint, you would probably be safer flying a King
Air 90 without a multi rating than flying a Baron with annual simulator
training.


Or a turbine single like a TBM-700 or PC12.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/
  #37  
Old March 31st 04, 09:03 PM
john szpara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What is magical about 200kts? Why do you care if it will go fast at low
altitudes? If you are going any distance, you will be high and if you are
only going a short distance a faster cruising speed won't matter much.
Often, making an intersection departure will save more time than and
additional 20kts. 190kts or 210kts won't make much difference on even the
longest flight.


I don't know what is magical about 200kts. Just a target, I suppose,
for being able to travel longer distances in a reasonable period of
time.

You make good points about speed, though.

Why do you want a potty? They stink and YOU have to empty them. I have had
potty in my airplane for 6 yrs and it has never been used.


You've never been on a long trip with my wife. When we're driving, we
have to stop every hour for the restroom. That's tough to do on a long
flight, especially if you're at the flight levels and she tells you
she "has to go". Not such a big deal for me, if I have a relief tube,
but for her its a different story.

Why does it need to be "cabin class" unless it is eight seats or greater?


So the passengers don't have to climb over seats to get in and out?

Your specs add up to a big, heavy airplane with a lot of frontal area. It
is going to require big, powerful, thirsty engines to pull it through the
air. All this is going to cost multiples of the proposed budget.


OK, so some things will have to be sacrificed. My list is only stuff
I'd like to have. Reality (and pocketbook) will dictate what I *can*
have.

You may have great reasons for every spec but you need to narrow it down
quite a bit.


That's why I'm here. Ask the questions now, before I write a big
check.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT
  #38  
Old March 31st 04, 09:04 PM
john szpara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


The one that'll kick it into the higher price bracket is the potty, since
only the 421 has that feature available.


I've seen 414s with them. You might even be able to do it with a 340,
if you do a 4 seat config.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT
  #39  
Old March 31st 04, 09:06 PM
john szpara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:41:16 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Those trips to FlightSafety will eat up a lot of that 20-30K per year
budget. It is a real commitment once you get an airplane that requires
simulator training unless you are fortunate enough to live near the sim
facility. If you go for two days at a time it will take at least four
including getting there and back. Twice a year is eight days which is a lot
of *estra* time to carve out of your annual schedule.


Sorry, I should have said that the $20-30k was for insurance,
maintenance, gas, and tiedown. It didn't include the training.

Again, if some of this is tax deductable, due to business expense,
then it's a whole different ballgame than a hobby. Also, I'm self
employed, and will have the time to spend on the training.

John Szpara
Affordable Satellite
Fiero Owner 2-84 Indy Pace cars, 86 Coupe, 88 Formula 3.4, 88 Coupe, 88GT
  #40  
Old March 31st 04, 10:16 PM
Nathan Young
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:07:22 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:


The real point of my post was that turbine engine failures are so rare that
even if every one resulted in a fatal accident, they would still have a
lower fatal accident rate then piston twins. It doesn't matter what happens
after an engine failure if the engine doesn't fail in the first place. So,
from an engine failure standpoint, you would probably be safer flying a King
Air 90 without a multi rating than flying a Baron with annual simulator
training.


Creative thinking, and probably true.

-Nathan

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.