Legal? - SPOT Helium Balloon Race

Hi,

This was a crazy idea I had that my son thought would be a lot of fun. The
question is whether or not it is legal or advisable.

The idea is to tie a bunch of helium party balloons to a SPOT unit, then let
it go and see how far it gets. We would chase it down in a car.
Theoretically, we should be able to follow it and know exactly where it
lands from the SPOT tracking data - send to a PDA or monitored using a PC.

I thought it would be fun to get my 11 year old son and perhaps his science
class at school to help design it. They would learn a lot in the process -
such as calculating the number of balloons required, analyzing the weather,
etc. I was planning on including a parachute so it won't land hard if all
the balloons pop, and a dish shaped base to help it land right-side up so
the SPOT tracking data can be broadcast to the satellites after landing.
We'd also attach a note with our phone numbers. We'd try to keep it as
light and simple as possible so that it would not do any damage to aircraft
that might happed to hit it. I think the odds of it getting hit by an
airliner are extremely slight, but I certainly wouldn't want to cause any
issues with airliners and their passengers.

I think it would be a fun adventure that may even help convince my 11 year
old (nearly 12) son that doing glider retrieves would also be fun when he
gets his driver's license in less than 5 years.

But I don't want to do it if it is not safe, or not legal, etc. I don't
want to "take my chances" that it will be safe - unless the risks are
miniscule.

I look forward to your feedback. I imagine that it won't be positive, but I
just had to ask... It sounds like a fun adventure.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

Wow, I can't wait till my SPOT gets sucked into some big GE turbofan,
destroys the engine, and kills 200 people.

wrote:
Wow, I can't wait till my SPOT gets sucked into some big GE turbofan,
destroys the engine, and kills 200 people.

Radiosondes about the size of a SPOT are launched daily by balloon all
over the country, but I haven't heard of any GE turbofans finding them.
Perhaps there is a procedure for doing something like this safely.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

"Paul Remde" wrote:
This was a crazy idea I had that my son thought would be a lot of fun.
The question is whether or not it is legal or advisable.

As to legality: check out part 101 of the FAA regs, first to 101.1 to see
if the balloon size and ops are such that 101 covers them, then on to
101.31 through 101.39 to see what would be required.

On Mar 2, 12:27*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

This was a crazy idea I had that my son thought would be a lot of fun. *The
question is whether or not it is legal or advisable.

I assume you paid for the free replacement contract and want to see
how effective it is

If I was going to launch the balloons I'd rather not have anything
traceable to me attached to them.

I've been startled by party balloons when flying power planes in the
Phoenix area. They wouldn't hurt if I hit one. I don't relish the
idea of getting a spot through the prop or windshield.

My take - don't do it. If you have to do it, don't do it anywhere I
could be flying.

Andy

Andy wrote:
On Mar 2, 12:27*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

This was a crazy idea I had that my son thought would be a lot of fun.
*The
question is whether or not it is legal or advisable.

I assume you paid for the free replacement contract and want to see
how effective it is

If I was going to launch the balloons I'd rather not have anything
traceable to me attached to them.

Why not? Last I checked, balloon launchers had an equal right to use the
public airspace as anyone else. (In the U.S. part 101 contains the
regulations pertinent to safe operations of balloons.)

I've been startled by party balloons when flying power planes in the
Phoenix area. They wouldn't hurt if I hit one. I don't relish the
idea of getting a spot through the prop or windshield.

I hate to break it to you, but you are more likely to run into a bird than
a balloon of any sort. Or even another manned aircraft.

My take - don't do it. If you have to do it, don't do it anywhere I
could be flying.

Just to be clear - if the risk of using a public commons is too great for
you, you always have the option of not using it. If free balloons bother
you that much, don't fly.

Sorry to break the news to you but, that winds aloft information you
get on your pilot breifing is typically generated by the NWS launching
2 weather balloons every day from 66 locations in the US.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/abr/?n=wxballoonfacts.php

Brian

I wrote:
(In the U.S. part 101 contains the
regulations pertinent to safe operations of balloons.)

Correction - "... regulations pertinent to legal operations of balloons."

On Mar 2, 4:24*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Why not? Last I checked, balloon launchers had an equal right to use the
public airspace as anyone else. (In the U.S. part 101 contains the
regulations pertinent to safe operations of balloons.)

The operation described by the OP does not appear to be compliant with
101 subpart D. Perhaps he left out all the details that would make it
compliant. Perhaps he'd post again telling us how he intends to
comply.

I've been startled by party balloons when flying power planes in the
Phoenix area. *They wouldn't hurt if I hit one. *I don't relish the
idea of getting a spot through the prop or windshield.

I hate to break it to you, but you are more likely to run into a bird than
a balloon of any sort. Or even another manned aircraft.

Maybe that's because unmanned balloon operations are regulated by 101
subpart D. The flight of birds is, to the best of my knowledge,
unregulated.

Just to be clear - if the risk of using a public commons is too great for
you, you always have the option of not using it. If free balloons bother
you that much, don't fly.

I have never, while flying, seen an unmanned free ballon legally
operating inder 101 subpart D. The risk of meeting one does not
bother me.

Andy

Andy wrote:
On Mar 2, 4:24*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
Why not? Last I checked, balloon launchers had an equal right to use
the public airspace as anyone else. (In the U.S. part 101 contains
the regulations pertinent to safe operations of balloons.)

The operation described by the OP does not appear to be compliant with
101 subpart D. Perhaps he left out all the details that would make it
compliant. Perhaps he'd post again telling us how he intends to
comply.

I believe you've misread the regulations by not reading 101.1. That is
where it states:

"This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United States,
of the following:
....
(4) Except as provided for in 101.7, any unmanned free balloon that ...
"

So the "applicability" in 101.1 specifies the criteria that must be met
for _any_ of the remainder of Part 101 to be applicable.

Now in 101.31 in "Subpart D" it states "This subpart applies to the
operation of unmanned free balloons." But that subpart _isn't_ applicable
if the conditions in 101.1 aren't met. (Because it is a _subpart_.) If it
were applicable, then according to 101.33(d), anyone releasing something
as small as a helium party balloon in a town would be in violation of the
FARs.

When properly read, according to 101.1 any unmanned free balloon under 4
lbs of payload that presents suitably large surface areas is not subject
to any Subparts of Part 101.

I've been startled by party balloons when flying power planes in
the Phoenix area. *They wouldn't hurt if I hit one. *I don't relish
the idea of getting a spot through the prop or windshield.

I hate to break it to you, but you are more likely to run into a bird
than a balloon of any sort. Or even another manned aircraft.

Maybe that's because unmanned balloon operations are regulated by 101
subpart D. The flight of birds is, to the best of my knowledge,
unregulated.

A SPOT weighs 209g. It has a density less than water (it's designed to
float.) Might dent the prop or crack the windshield, but can't see it
causing a serious hazard. (You can save the prop from significant damage
but shutting off the engine and gliding. ;-))

And as I said, Subpart D of Part 101 isn't applicable to all unmanned
balloon operations. Small balloons meeting the criteria of 101.1(4) are
not covered by Part 101. The balloon the OP proposes could no doubt be
easily made to comply. And since the OP is a pilot would no doubt perform
the operation as safely as feasible.