Angel Flights A few Questions for Peter R. or any other Participant

Nomen Nescio wrote:
Peter,
After looking through the web sites that you referenced, I just have to say what a teriffic service
you are providing to those in need. Certainly a far more worthy cause than the $100 hamburger.
It's something that I would be very interested in becoming involved with and I have a few questions
that I really can only get answered by an active participant. And maybe a couple that you can't
answer.

1) liability issues
The release from Angel Flight East seems pretty straight forward, you're not liable for anything!
But I was wondering if you had checked it out with an attorney to get a professional opinion. Some
lawyers start smelling money and they may go for any angle, no matter how bizarre. Are you aware
of any cases where pilots have had legal problems result. Being "not for hire" lowers one's liability,
I know. But nowadays.....?????
Also, I can't call up a form on Angel Flight Northeast. Is it basically the same?

Besides the release, you may be exempt from liability under your state
"good samaritan" law, if there is one. I've come to accept the notion
that you can't actually be free of liability in most situations because
for example, even if the passenger waives his rights to sue, his heirs
etc. have not, and they could come after you. That said, I just don't
worry about it. It would be just too sad to not help someone out due to
fear of being sued.

2) Class 3 medical issues: I assume that as long as you can pass your class 3, are properly BFRed,
current, and meet the 300hr, IFR, 25 IMC? requirements that you're in there. I'm asking 'cause I
lost half my right lung (big hole, long story) in '86 and had to jump through the hoops to get my
medical back. Official determination was that while I was at higher risk for a spontaneous
pneumothorax (collapsed lung), that I would still be able to safely land an aircraft despite the
associated breathing difficulties. I'm hoping that this wouldn't rule me out.

I would think that if you are legal to fly, and you know you are safe,
you should be good to go.

3) Contageous Disease - Quite simply, do you fly people that you could catch a major disease
from?

This hasn't been a factor yet for me. So far the pax I've carried have
all been treated for non-contageous illness. I do get a flu shot
every year though.

4) What special care do you have to provide for the passengers? I read the physicians release
Ambulatory, no bathrooms, can't lie down, etc. But could you tell me a little bit about your
experiences with various individuals. Panic attacks, in flight emergencies, Interior needs a cleaning
('nuff said), overall passenger attitude (appreciative to bitchy?), etc.

I bring some cold bottled water, paper towels, barf bags, and sometimes
a step stool to help them get in and out. Most had flown GA before,
and so far no one has gotten "airsick" with me. I make every effort
to fly as "smooth" as possible, and if a climb or descent through
rough air was needed, letting them know ahead of time that the rough
part will be "just a few minutes" seemed to help. Unless they are
particularly interested in aviation, they usually just take a nap.
All have been appreciative. Carried cancer patients, a MS patient and
his "service dog", and even did an on-call mission for a transplant
patient. All have been great trips, some vmc, some imc,
and some in "interesting" weather.


5) Commitment: Hours for the avg. mission, times of day (night), advance notice, lay overs, etc.

My flights are usually daytime trips of 200-300nm. A couple have been
longer. One person was to return the next day, so I just spent the
night and brought them back too.

6) Aircraft: If you can do it in a 172, I guess just about anything that you can squeeze 4 people
in will work?

My trips have mostly been in 172s, with a couple using a 182. Actually,
a 172 can carry a pretty respectable load!

7) Any other negatives that I might have missed.

I don't think there actually are any negatives 8-)

8) Oh, 1 more. How do you figure expenses. Fuel, oil, obviously. But do you include allocations
for overhauls, repairs, annual, etc.
Or do you rent?

I'm a renter, so that part has been easy.

I know I'm asking for a lot of info. here (small novel?) but I am seriously interested in this and want
to be sure that I am going into it with my eyes wide open. I'll bet others here might be interested,
also.

Thanks

Glad to put my 2 cents in. Angel Flight is a great program, and one
gets a great feeling doing a mission.

Disclaimer: Yea, I'm for real.........No. I'm not a troll.........I use a remailer for spam elimination
...........Any and all replies related to the subject will be appreciated......WARNING: Author may
become arrogant and obnoxious......Reply at your own risk!
(There, I hope that covers It)






Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

Nomen -

I'm not Peter, but I do fly for Angel Flight West and can answer some
of your questions. My answers are interspersed with your questions.

Nomen Nescio ] wrote in
:

Peter,
After looking through the web sites that you referenced, I just have
to say what a teriffic service
you are providing to those in need. Certainly a far more worthy cause
than the $100 hamburger. It's something that I would be very
interested in becoming involved with and I have a few questions that I
really can only get answered by an active participant. And maybe a
couple that you can't answer.

1) liability issues
The release from Angel Flight East seems pretty straight forward,
you're not liable for anything!
But I was wondering if you had checked it out with an attorney to get
a professional opinion. Some lawyers start smelling money and they may
go for any angle, no matter how bizarre. Are you aware of any cases
where pilots have had legal problems result. Being "not for hire"
lowers one's liability, I know. But nowadays.....?????
Also, I can't call up a form on Angel Flight Northeast. Is it
basically the same?

2) Class 3 medical issues: I assume that as long as you can pass your
class 3, are properly BFRed, current, and meet the 300hr, IFR, 25 IMC?
requirements that you're in there. I'm asking 'cause I lost half my
right lung (big hole, long story) in '86 and had to jump through the
hoops to get my medical back. Official determination was that while I
was at higher risk for a spontaneous pneumothorax (collapsed lung),
that I would still be able to safely land an aircraft despite the
associated breathing difficulties. I'm hoping that this wouldn't rule
me out.

3) Contageous Disease - Quite simply, do you fly people that you could
catch a major disease from?


You have your choice of missions. When I log on to see the available
missions, I get a brief description of the treatment the passenger is going
for. I haven't had any problems with this, nor do I recall any mission
which listed a contagious disease. I don't think someone with a contagious
disease would be approved by their physician to take any flight.

The missions I've flown have been mainly for follow-up hospital visits for
various transplants and cancer treatments, family members tending to
hospitalized children, camps for children who are burn victims, and camps
for children with hearing disabilities. The kids (8-16 in age) I've flown
have all loved the flights. One mission I flew was a "milk run" - no
passengers, just 200 lbs of frozen mother's milk.

4) What special care do you have to provide for the passengers? I read
the physicians release Ambulatory, no bathrooms, can't lie down, etc.
But could you tell me a little bit about your experiences with various
individuals. Panic attacks, in flight emergencies, Interior needs a
cleaning ('nuff said), overall passenger attitude (appreciative to
bitchy?), etc.


In about 25 missions, I haven't had any problems with passengers. Every
passenger I've flown has appreciated the service Angel Flight provides. I
do remind my passengers to use the facilities before we take off, and if
the flight is more than 2 hours, I keep in mind where airports are en route
where I can land if necessary for passenger comfort. I have NOT yet had
to use this alternative.

5) Commitment: Hours for the avg. mission, times of day (night),
advance notice, lay overs, etc.


As you pick the missions you want to volunteer for, this is entirely up to
you. I've flown missions which have been as few as 2.5 hours flight time
and as long as 8 hours flight time. (Flight times include all dead head
legs.) Most of my missions have been during the day with only the return
to my home base at night (and these mainly because I stopped for dinner
somewhere en route home.

6) Aircraft: If you can do it in a 172, I guess just about anything
that you can squeeze 4 people in will work?


You can do a mission in a 152 if it is only for one person and little
luggage!. On my "milk run" (200 lbs of mother's milk from San Jose to San
Bernadino), I had no passengers on board. I've flown missions in C172,
C182, Archer, Arrow, and Rallye 235.

Before I volunteer for a mission, I look at the mission form and make sure
that the number of passengers AND their weight AND their luggage will be a
fit for the aircraft I'm planning to use. If not, I don't volunteer for
the mission. The first thing I do after being assigned a mission is to
contact the passenger and verify weight and baggage. If the original data
was wrong and the aircraft I have available won't handle the mission, I
immediately get back to the Angel Flight office so they can find another
pilot.

7) Any other negatives that I might have missed.

The only negative I can think of, and its not really a negative, is that
flights can be cancelled by the passenger at the last minute. Worst case
is you've done some flight planning you don't get to use. To me, this is
NOT a negative, as it never hurts to practice flight planning.

8) Oh, 1 more. How do you figure expenses. Fuel, oil, obviously. But
do you include allocations for overhauls, repairs, annual, etc.
Or do you rent?

If you own the aircraft, your expenses are limited fuel, oil, landing fees,
and parking fees. If you rent, the entire rental cost plus, if renting
dry, fuel and oil, as well as any landing fees and parking fees are
allowed. Note that just about all airports and FBO's waive landing and
ramp fees for Angel Flight. Many also give a discount on fuel. Last year
I took a flight from Mariposa/Yosemite to San Francisco International. No
landing fee, no Signature ramp fee, and red carpet treatement by ATC and
the FBO! I'll never forget being cleared to land on 28R at SFO and in the
same transmission the SFO tower switching a United heavy to 28L stating
they needed the right for an Angel Flight. It was quite thrilling to see a
747-400 rolling to a stop 750' away!


I know I'm asking for a lot of info. here (small novel?) but I am
seriously interested in this and want to be sure that I am going into
it with my eyes wide open. I'll bet others here might be interested,
also.

I don't see any negatives to being a volunteer pilot with Angel Flight. I
look at it as a triple win:

1) The passenger gets help they need.

2) I get the fun of flying.

3) I can fly 33% more hours for the same budget with the
tax deductions.


Thanks

Disclaimer: Yea, I'm for real.........No. I'm not a troll.........I
use a remailer for spam elimination
...........Any and all replies related to the subject will be
appreciated......WARNING: Author may
become arrogant and obnoxious......Reply at your own risk!
(There, I hope that covers It)







I hope this helps.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

"Nomen Nescio" wrote:
Some lawyers start smelling money and they may go for any angle, no
matter how bizarre.

Unfortunately true. You would be kidding yourself to think the release
form would *prevent* a lawsuit from being filed. It might help in court.

2) Class 3 medical issues:..I'm hoping that this wouldn't rule me out.

As long as you've got the required certificates, rating and experience,
you're good to go.

3) Contageous Disease - Quite simply, do you fly people that you could
catch a major disease
from?

I've not flown such a mission. There are special procedures for this
which AF will explain to you. AF will always inform you of the nature of
a patient's illness, and of course you may decline any mission.

4) What special care do you have to provide for the passengers? I read
the physicians
release Ambulatory, no bathrooms, can't lie down, etc. But could you
tell me a little bit
about your experiences with various individuals. Panic attacks, in
flight emergencies,
Interior needs a cleaning ('nuff said), overall passenger attitude
(appreciative to bitchy?), etc.

I carry water, wipes and large freezer bags (for sick sacks). The latter
have come in handy a couple of times. Most of my passengers have been
very nice with a couple of instances of minor grumpiness.

5) Commitment: Hours for the avg. mission, times of day (night),
advance notice, lay overs, etc.

Round trip times for missions have varied from four to eight hours
flight time. I stayed overnight in Tulsa one time just because I was
tired.

6) Aircraft: If you can do it in a 172, I guess just about anything
that you can squeeze 4 people
in will work?

It's a bit of a squeeze sometimes in my Cutlass RG. I seem to draw the
hefty ladies a lot.

7) Any other negatives that I might have missed.

Most of the missions are on week days.

8) Oh, 1 more. How do you figure expenses. Fuel, oil, obviously. But
do you include allocations
for overhauls, repairs, annual, etc.

I figure total cost/hour.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Altho AngelFlight is the "umbrella" organization, there are 5 geographic
areas in the US. I live out west and am a member of AngelFlightWest. Each
section has its own minimum requirements for Command Pilot (the PIC).
But I believe the legal issues are pretty much the same (liability
and patient ability). Check out the AFW website for details if you're
not able to get to you local AF website.

www.angelflight.org

for info on patient requirements, etc.

expenses

I think (not sure) that only those items that are deductible are (if you're
renting) the rental cost (assuming renting wet) or fuel and oil if you're
the owner. Pretty much the same as if you were taking friends along
and each was paying a pro-rata share. But in this case, you pay the
entire chunk but it is 501(c)3.

Tom Pappano wrote in message y.com...

6) Aircraft: If you can do it in a 172, I guess just about anything that you can squeeze 4 people
in will work?

I fly for LifeLinePilots in the Midwest and really love the few
missions I'm able to make. It is a great way to do something good and
get a chance to fly.

I have a Cherokee 180, and have found the over the wing entry to be
difficult for many patients, especially with the door on the passenger
side. This means I have to get in the plane 1st... Fortunately I've
found FBO linestaff to be eager to help as well, so that's great.

Based on this, I will reluctantly admit this is something that a
172/182 is better suited than my Cherokee.


7) Any other negatives that I might have missed.

Since my Cherokee 180 isn't de-iced, I am nervous about accepting
flights in the winter, unless it is last-minute notice and obvious the
weather will be nice. Fortunately LLP has access to several pilots
that have de-iced twins. They end up taking quite a few winter
missions.

On that note, the patients are supposed to have backup transportation
arranged, or the ability to push their appointment should weather
delays occur. Something to keep in mind. Personally, if I can't fly
them, I would drive them or put them on an airline flight, but that's
not an option everyone has.

-Nathan

Blanche wrote in
:

Altho AngelFlight is the "umbrella" organization, there are 5
geographic areas in the US. Check out the AFW website for details if
you're not able to get to you local AF website.

www.angelflight.org

http://www.angelflightamerica.org/ will get you to the main web site.
From there you can pick your part of the country and it will link you
to the appropriate regional web site.

As others have said, the liability release is of questionable value, but
does show intent. [You can not waive others right to sue.] Most states
have a good samaritan law and you are pretty well protected unless you
have done something really stupid (like kill two six-packs of Coors just
before takeoff). I don't believe we have EVER had a suit brought
against us.

Beyond that, it's a matter of volunteering. Some pilots have more spare
time and take twenty or forty or more missions a year. Some are
students who have to collect empty pop bottles along the roadside to get
enough money for a couple of hours rental and so they may take one
mission a year. Every one of those missions help someone, and all are
appreciated.

Most flights are in your "average" four seater (PA28 or C-172 class
planes). The average mission is a patient and companion, with 50
pounds total baggage - normally well within the flight parameters. But
some are just one person or cargo (frequently blood or milk). Others
have special weight or cargo size issues. You look at the list of
what's available, say to yourself "Hmmm... never been to *that* airport
before," check the weight and other issues, and either volunteer or not.
It's that simple.

Flying the mission - it's not that different from flying a friend of the
family. The patients must be ambulatory. We are NOT an air ambulance
service. Having said that, we certainly *do* try to make them as
comfortable as possible and certainly want them to have a pleasant
flight. Some will be enthusiastic about the flight and want to talk;
some will be tired from treatment and may sleep most of the way.

Different regions have slightly different pilot requirements, usually
driven by the typical weather for that area. Most want a Private Pilot
or better, about 200 hours total time, and the usual legal requirements
(current pilot and plane). A few require an Instrument rating. Angel
Flight SC requires that you have liability insurance (but it could be
$10 worth - you just have to have some). A couple may want a small
signup fee (which I personally object to), the others do not.

Please visit the sites, and feel free to e:mail me any questions you
have.

James M. Knox
Chairman - Angel Flight South Central




-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Nomen Nescio wrote:

[I had to switch news providers because once again, your post did not
propagate to my commercial news provider's servers.]

1) liability issues

Like others have stated, I suppose that in these times of severe
litigation, a good lawyer could probably get past the waver in the event
of an accident.

However, I do not let the fear of a possible lawsuit stop me from
participating. If anything, I use this potential as added incentive to
flight plan conservatively.

Also, I can't call up a form on Angel Flight Northeast. Is it basically
the same?

Yes.

2) Class 3 medical issues: I assume that as long as you can pass your
class 3, are properly BFRed, current, and meet the 300hr, IFR, 25 IMC?
requirements that you're in there.
snip

Yes. AF does not require any additional medical information other than
a current class 3 medical.

3) Contageous Disease - Quite simply, do you fly people that you
could catch a major disease from?

Severe burns, birth deformity, and cancer are the most common types of
medical conditions I have flown. Honestly, I never even gave contagious
disease a thought until I read your words. Nope.. no worry.

Perhaps my most memorable flight was with a woman who was in the last
stages of terminal cancer. She and her husband lived in NYC and they
wanted to get to Maine to see their only daughter get married. Her
husband told me that most likely she was going to Maine to die. The in-
laws were all waiting at the Maine airport to greet her when we arrived.
This was last August. I believe she has since died.

4) What special care do you have to provide for the passengers?
snip

I carry airsickness bags and during the briefing I encourage the
passengers to ask for one if they need it. On two different flights I
have had passengers request one, but they never used it. I also have
carried two passengers who brought their portable oxygen tanks.

Most of the people I have flown were very appreciative of the flight. A
couple were anxious about flying in a small airplane, but as fate would
have it, the air was smooth and the views were stunning that day, so
they were converted.

One lady was not happy because I was delayed a few hours, thanks to
numerous thunderstorm cells across our entire route. This was the
second leg for her (she was flying from North Caroline up to Boston) and
she had already had a long day. In this case I calmly reminded her of
the limitations of small aircraft.

On our flight up to Boston (from Philly) we crossed right over Kennedy
airport at night and got a spectacular view of a large t-storm cell some
90 miles away lighting up the night-time sky with its lightning. Then,
the full moon rose from behind this isolated cell. It was surreal. The
woman's mood changed substantially and she sincerely thanked me when we
were on the ground at Bedford.

Another person gave me a hard time on the phone because I could not
arrive to pick him, his wife and son up until dinner time. He did not
want to wait around the airport with his young son an extra two hours.

He called back about a half an hour later and apologized for his
attitude, then told me they were taking the train home.

You learn a bit of customer service, too.

5) Commitment: Hours for the avg. mission, times of day (night), advance
notice, lay overs, etc.

This depends on the the departing and arriving airports. When I first
started, I was flying 2 1/2 hours to pick up a patient, flying 2 hours
to the destination airport, then flying another 2 hours home. This made
for an 8 or 9 hour day (including ground time). With two small boys at
home, I soon realized that this was too much for me so I chose shorter
missions.

My average now is about 6 hours total time. Since I work during the
day, most of my missions are in the evenings or occasionally on the
weekends. Now that winter is here, evenings mean after dark.

There are both morning and afternoon missions, as well as "patient
flexible" missions. As I stated previously, you see a list with flights
up to two months advance notice, but there are also emails that go out
twice a week looking for pilots to fly the following day. Fly whatever
works for your schedule.

6) Aircraft: If you can do it in a 172, I guess just about anything that
you can squeeze 4 people in will work?

I learned very quickly about the importance of adjusting fuel load to
accommodate passenger weight. If I am not able to fly with a bit over
an hour's worth of reserve (10 gallons in the C172) based on the weight
of the patients and luggage, I don't take that mission.

One day a few months ago there were three people that needed to get to
Ohio from a city nearby my home airport. Since no one else had taken
the flight, I called AF and told them I would do it if the patient would
consider leaving one behind, since the weight of the three of them
exceeded my load carrying capacity. The patients said no. No other
pilot came forward so they drove the nine hours to Ohio.

7) Any other negatives that I might have missed.

No.

8) Oh, 1 more. How do you figure expenses. Fuel, oil, obviously.
But do you include allocations for overhauls, repairs, annual, etc.
Or do you rent?

I own, so I calculated a fair hourly cost to use the aircraft.
According to my accountant, it should pass the IRS. I also include the
cost to drive back and forth to my home airport (since I live about 1/2
hour away), any meals that I may have purchased because of the flight,
and any fees associated with the flight (landing fees, de-icing, etc.)

Regards,

--
Peter