Good Instructors...

Y'All,
My students have taught me far more than all I have learned through
other means. Perhaps that's why the pay scale is backasswards.

Gene Whitt

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:04:53 -0600, Journeyman
wrote:


In article et, Gene Whitt wrote:
Y'All,
One thing I do about instruction for as certain as I can be about anything
is...

A good instructor knows best of all what he can't teach.

You can't teach what you don't know. Paradoxically, you never learn
a subject as well as when you try to teach it to someone else.



The best way to learn is to teach

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Morris

Journeyman wrote
A good instructor knows best of all what he can't teach.

You can't teach what you don't know. Paradoxically, you never learn
a subject as well as when you try to teach it to someone else.

Actually, both statements are true - and there is no paradox.

Yes, it is crucially important for an instrutor to know what he can't
teach. Those are the edges of his instruction envelope. They're not
the edges of his flight envelope. You can't teach effectively when
you're pushing your own limits. The corollary is that you can't teach
something you've never done, and neither can you teach something
you've only done once or twice. You need depth of experience.

But just because you know how to do something doesn't mean you know
all the ways it can go wrong, nor all the ways it can be done. Nobody
does. That's where the part about learning it best when you teach it
comes in.

Once upon a time, I was teaching a student to thermal a glider. Now
I've spent many hours thermalling a variety of gliders, and have
reached some minimum standard - I was good enough to have gone off on
XC and reached my destination. In the UK (and pretty much the rest of
the world), that would have been a minimum standard for holding a
glider instructor rating, but in the US we don't consider that
necessary. I was also reasonably proficient with spins - meaning I
had done quite a few, in a variety of aircraft and with various
entries, and could comfortably spin to headings and recover with
minimum altitude loss. Thus I felt myself qualified to teach both
thermalling and spin recovery. What I did not expect was that I would
be doing both that day.

I was in the back seat of a Blanik L-23 training glider - in fact, the
same make and model in which I did spins to headings and got my CFI
spin endorsement. The L-23 is best described as a spin-resistant
glider. With me in the back seat and a very lightweight instructor in
the front, we were almost at the aft limit of cg. Despite this,
getting a consistent spin entry required the nose be raised about 15
degrees above the horizon, and full pro-spin rudder applied as the
stick hit the aft stop and the nose began to drop. Simply bleeding
off the airspeed, even fully cross-controlled, resulted only in a
mushy, sloppy turn. If you wanted a spin entry, you had to work for
it. Full pro-spin controls had to be maintained for the entire
maneuver, and relaxed about 10 degrees ahead of the recovery. The
glider would recover itself as soon as pro-spin rudder was released
and back pressure relaxed. The most challenging part of the maneuver
was timing the re-application of back pressure to minimize speed gain
and altitude loss in the recovery.

I knew all abuot inadvertent spins. I knew people HAD spun out of
thermals. I knew that there had been stall-spin accidents in the L-23
- in fact there had been a stall-spin fatality in an L-23 at the club
where I learned to fly gliders. I knew this meant that with a
ham-handed student (one who had not yet developed the finesse
necessary to thermal well) one ought not to do thermal training at an
altitude lower than necessary for recovery and subsequent pattern
entry, and I abided by the recommendation.

And yet, that day, I learned something - I learned what a REAL
inadvertent spin entry looks like, and how it fools people. There I
was, in the back of the L-23, with a rather heavy student in front.
We were nowhere near the aft cg limit. There was somewhat decent lift
to work, and he was working it somewhat decently. It was Reichmann
(author of Streckensegelflug, the seminal work on soaring - I sure
hope I spelled that right) who said that in smooth air, one should fly
smoothly - and in rough air one should fly roughly. Well, the air was
rough and my student was flying roughly. He was also improving, and
so I cheerfully sat in the back, coaching him occasionally, but
knowing that this was a skill only time in the seat would develop.

He really didn't do anything all that terribly wrong. He applied too
much rudder into the turn - but not a ridiculous amount. He applied
too much backpressure as we entered a stronger area of lift - but some
backpressure was called for. He leveled the wings a bit, applying
aileron to the outside of the turn - but a shallower bank was
appropriate in the stronger lift. And then exactly the wrong gust hit
at exactly the wrong time, and I found myself staring down at the golf
course next to the airport as it began to turn.

As I sat in the back of the glider, I wasn't actually worried or
scared. I had done some aerobatics, so being in this kind of attitude
was no big thing to me. We had plenty of altitude - 2000 ft or so -
and so being able to effect a safe recovery was never in doubt. In
fact, we had altitude to spare, and so I was going to let the student
take a shot at it first. "We're in a spin - recover" I said from the
back. But what I was thinking was "How did you manage to do something
I had to work at without even trying?" My student released the
backpressure, the glider immediately recovered from the spin, and I
talked the student through a reasonable pattern and landing.

I'm not sure how to describe what I learned - but I feel like I
understand inadvertent spin entries a lot better having seen that.
Before, I never quite understood how a spin can just sneak up on you -
and now I've seen it and know what it looks like.

Michael

I had a bunch, all good, some better than others, a few barely passable but
OK.

The best ones were bush pilots, the worst the kind looking to build hours
for a job with the airlines.

I just learned something from another one who showed me how to line up with
a crossroads and count full turns in a spin and figure out how many spins in
a thousand feet of altitude loss. He's young but a hell of a pilot and a
bit of a swashbuckler. Man, will a Taylorcraft ever wind up and spin!
Over 4 complete rotations in a thousand feet with the nose waaaay down, and
the next time we'll see how many seconds it takes with a stopwatch. Of
course if you spin to the left instead of to the right ...

Dave Cowan, a Canadian bush pilot, and I used to take up a 152 and spin it.
That one was hard to get to spin. A Taylorcraft will stall without warning
and spin in a heartbeat, but you have to really yank the yoke and kick the
rudder to get a 152 to spin.

I wrote an anecdote about a favorite instructor several years ago in
rec.aviation.student. It was fun to write. Do an advanced google search
and plug in, "I'll break your goddamn arm!" That was Marvin Harrison
(another great spinner) from Greenville, SC. Most unforgettable character
and another great pilot.

In article , Michael wrote:
Journeyman wrote
A good instructor knows best of all what he can't teach.

You can't teach what you don't know. Paradoxically, you never learn
a subject as well as when you try to teach it to someone else.

Actually, both statements are true - and there is no paradox.

Paradox merely refers to the *apparent* inconsistency.


Yes, it is crucially important for an instrutor to know what he can't
teach. Those are the edges of his instruction envelope. They're not
the edges of his flight envelope. You can't teach effectively when
you're pushing your own limits. The corollary is that you can't teach
something you've never done, and neither can you teach something
you've only done once or twice. You need depth of experience.

I promised myself I'd butt out of this thread, but any chance Dudley
would agree with this? Personality conflict aside, I really think
you guys are not as far apart on outlook as he seems to think you
are.


Morris

Journeyman wrote
I promised myself I'd butt out of this thread, but any chance Dudley
would agree with this? Personality conflict aside, I really think
you guys are not as far apart on outlook as he seems to think you
are.

Your original decision - to drop it - was the better one - but you
seem unwilling to drop it without explanation so I will provide one.
We are irreconcilably far apart on outlook. While we might
occasionally agree on some specific issues, our fundamental views are
so different that there really isn't any common ground for debate.

At first I couldn't understand why that was. I knew it could not be
age, experience, or military background because I've known, flown
with, and been instructed by quite a few pilots who were highly
experienced, much older, and had military backgrounds. I've even had
the pleasure of instructing one. There was never that feeling of
being so far apart on outlook - in fact, much of my outlook on flying
and instruction was shaped by these pilots. And that's the key word -
pilots. These were people who, often despite medical and financial
challenges, had committed to staying in the sky as long as possible.
It is a commitment I respect and share, and it produces a certain
outlook. Some of them could no longer get a medical - so they flew
gliders and/or ultralights. One could no longer afford to own an
airpane and had to sell his - but he continued to instruct at an FBO,
never drawing his pay - and when enough accumulated to fly for an
hour, he would.

I had always assumed that Dudley Henriques was cut from the same cloth
as those pilots. Like you, I assumed the reason for the disagreements
between us were a matter of misunderstanding or maybe personal issues.
It was not until he made threats of going after me, such as had not
been made since the era of the fish (which I may have misinterpreted -
or may not have - it remains to be seen) that I actually made an
effort to find out who he was - essentially to prepare my defense
against a potential cyberstalker.

Like many here, I post anonymously and have done so ever since the era
of the fish. Those who have been here any amount of time know who I
am - it's easy enough to figure out. Anonymity on the net is fragile
at best, and not difficult to pierce. Thus I found it amusing when
Mr. Henriques made the comments he did about my anonymity - imagine my
amusement when I discovered there was no Dudley Henriques in the
airman database. I won't publicly post his name - I'm sure he has his
reasons for anonymity - but I will tell you the important difference
that makes our outlooks irreconcilably different.

He's not a pilot. He quit flying long ago and the only 'flying' he
has done for a long time - or will ever do again - is on Microsoft
Flight Sim (and its kin). You once mentioned that I made a compelling
argument that safety is not always the most important thing, and that
every time you push the throttle forward you are buying into that.
You might ask him how long it has been since he has done that, and
when the next time will be.

Michael

Michael wrote:

Neither is
someone who has never owned an airplane.

I'd never considered this variable before. How does it impact the teaching
and what's taught?

- Andrew

Journeyman wrote:

Gene Whitt wrote:
Y'All,
One thing I do about instruction for as certain as I can be about anything
is...

A good instructor knows best of all what he can't teach.

You can't teach what you don't know. Paradoxically, you never learn
a subject as well as when you try to teach it to someone else.


Morris

I've always believed if I don't learn more than my students when I'm
teaching a class, something is wrong! Of course the material I learn
or discover is far outside the level of the material I'm teaching.
Sometimes I'll present it to the students if they seem receptive.
Usually, as a whole, they aren't. But one or two always are. Those are
the ones that make teaching a joy.

On 25 Nov 2004 16:35:06 GMT, (Blanche Cohen)
wrote:

Journeyman wrote:

Gene Whitt wrote:
Y'All,
One thing I do about instruction for as certain as I can be about anything
is...

A good instructor knows best of all what he can't teach.

You can't teach what you don't know. Paradoxically, you never learn
a subject as well as when you try to teach it to someone else.


Morris

I've always believed if I don't learn more than my students when I'm
teaching a class, something is wrong! Of course the material I learn
or discover is far outside the level of the material I'm teaching.

When I taught the "Introduction to Computer Science" as Graduate
Assistant I learned a lot about the day-to-day operation of the PCs
that I'd always skipped before.

Sometimes I'll present it to the students if they seem receptive.
Usually, as a whole, they aren't. But one or two always are. Those are
the ones that make teaching a joy.

With a total of 195 students in 5 classes, I didn't get much chance to
give special attention to any one:-))

I think I learned as much in those classes as I did my own although it
was entirely different.

Be it computers or flying, I think teaching requires you to step back
and take a look at the subject from a different perspective.
I have found that the longer I worked in the field the more difficult
it was to explain the fundamentals. I'd guess that's the main reason
I think they should outlaw PHDs teaching introductory courses. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:33:18 -0500, Roger
wrote:

snip
Be it computers or flying, I think teaching requires you to step back
and take a look at the subject from a different perspective.
I have found that the longer I worked in the field the more difficult
it was to explain the fundamentals. I'd guess that's the main reason
I think they should outlaw PHDs teaching introductory courses. :-))

I should add it's also the main reason I fly with an instructor at
least once every 6 months. Basically He goes along for a one hour
ride, then critiques the flying and we usually practice some
commercial maneuvers of shoot a bunch of approaches after the ride.

I try to make sure I'm not picking up any bad habits. OTOH it's often
difficult to find an instructor to deal specifically with Bo traits.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com