Long flight plan

David Rind wrote:

1) What do people like to use for flight planning for something
like this? Laying multiple sectionals on the floor next to each
other seems a bit painful.

Well, I use a DOS-based flight planner that's no longer available, but after
getting the route done there, I still lay out sectionals on the dining room
table and draw in the tracks. There may be features on the sectional that I
didn't notice on the screen, and, in any case, I'll want the marked-up charts
when I actually make the flight.

George Patterson
They say nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is, death
doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.

"David Rind" wrote in message ...
1) What do people like to use for flight planning for something
like this? Laying multiple sectionals on the floor next to each
other seems a bit painful. Is Aeroplanner a good choice? If so,
is the basic Aeroplanner the right level for this kind of thing?

If you want to do it with paper charts, the easiest way is to get
the FAA planning chart. It's essentially about the size of a sectional
unfolded but covers the entire US. It has VOR's and Airports (larger
ones at least) on it. You draw your line on this and then you have
the basis to go plot it out on your sectionals if you want.

Frankly, I use Aeroplanner and/or the DUAT planner to pick me a
route.


2) I'm thinking of flying to Tipton (FME) to get near Bethesda.
Anyone have opinions on this airport? GAI seems to have gotten
a lot of negative comments on AirNav, though if the weather is
bad I'll probably go there instead. (I miss being able to fly
into College Park!)

There's nothing wrong with GAI. FME is a long ways away from
Bethesda ground distance wise. GAI is a nice straight shot down
270 or 355.

3) If I fly into the Washington ADIZ IFR, can I cancel in the air
when I have the airport, or do I need to cancel on the ground? How
does switching over to the CTAF work if I'm supposed to be maintaining
communications with ATC while in the ADIZ?

You need to continue on the squawk to the ground. They will switch you
over to the CTAF, but you need to continue to squawk until you are down.

David Rind wrote in message ...
I'm planning to fly from Boston to Key West next month
with a stop near Bethesda on the way down and in Charlotte on
the way back. I'll need/want to make some additional stops along
the way, of course. This is a longer flight than I have made before
and much of it will be through states I have not flown in before.
So, I have a bunch of questions:

1) What do people like to use for flight planning for something
like this? Laying multiple sectionals on the floor next to each
other seems a bit painful. Is Aeroplanner a good choice? If so,
is the basic Aeroplanner the right level for this kind of thing?

At home, we start with Airnav actually, looking for good fuel
prices. Then I use something called a "low altitude flight planning
chart" which has the whole E coast of the US on one chart. I
also use DUATS flight planner for "VOR direct routing" (if going
via airways) or "direct routing for GPS" (if going direct). The
latter gives a nice printout to plot direct routes on VFR sectionals.

Enroute replanning, we use the "low altitude flight planning chart"
to pick reasonable destinations and the PDA progam "CoPilot" with
Paul Tomblin's database to compute distances and ETAs. We also
load the relevant sections of the AOPA Airport Directory in our
PDA.

I'm not sure how it would fit with your stops, but BWI is IOE
a very GA-friendly airport with a substantial fuel discount on
weekends, even though it is Signature. We've also stopped
at Suburban (Laurel, MD) but be careful, it's very close to the
FRZ.

I think Zephyrhills, FL (KZPH) is about the right distance
from Key West, and usually has good fuel prices. There isn't
much there if you need to spend the night or want a real meal,
though. There's a golf clubhouse w/ decent sandwiches
a short walk away IIRC and a nice area with tables to flight
plan or eat in the FBO.

Can't answer any of your other questions.

What are you flying?

HTH and have fun,
Sydney

"Snowbird" wrote in message
m...
I'm not sure how it would fit with your stops, but BWI is IOE
a very GA-friendly airport with a substantial fuel discount on
weekends, even though it is Signature. We've also stopped
at Suburban (Laurel, MD) but be careful, it's very close to the
FRZ.

It's also relatively short, narrow, and last time I landed there, the
pavement wasn't in very good shape. It may or may not be suitable for an
airplane that cruises at 155 knots (hard to know without knowing the exact
make and model).

I too have heard great things about the GA side of BWI.

Pete

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
If you want to do it with paper charts, the easiest way is to get
the FAA planning chart. It's essentially about the size of a sectional
unfolded but covers the entire US. It has VOR's and Airports (larger
ones at least) on it. You draw your line on this and then you have
the basis to go plot it out on your sectionals if you want.

Frankly, I use Aeroplanner and/or the DUAT planner to pick me a
route.

I (use to) use WAC charts in the cockpit and cross-reference to something
like AeroPlanner.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"David Rind" wrote in message
...
1) What do people like to use for flight planning for something
like this? Laying multiple sectionals on the floor next to each
other seems a bit painful.

When a sectional doesn't include enough real estate, get yourself a World
Aeronautical Chart.

Well, for planning a Boston to Key West trip, I'm not entirely sure
that 3 WAC charts is a big improvement on 5 sectionals spread over
the floor. Still rather unwieldy.

If one is going to plan on paper, the thing is to buy the low-altitude
planning chart. If planning an E-W trip across the middle of the
thing, buy two, they're cheap and can be reused until they fall apart.

FWIW, I don't like the WAC charts; they don't have the three letter
abbreviations for airports, which makes it harder to relate the
chart to the database in a GPS. And, if one really needs info
about the terrain for some reason, they're not sufficiently detailed.

If one just wants some VFR charts as backup to IFR enroutes, they're
OK I guess. We buy them sometimes when the choice is between 4
sectionals vs 1 WAC.

OTOH, I don't like Aeroplanner Tripticks either. They're a great
idea, but on long trips (~900 mile-ish) it's just not uncommon
for us to have to detour outside the area they cover. I did a
set for our CFI and friend on one of his last long trips, and
he came back w/ the same evaluation. Just a modest detour for
afternoon t-storms took him off the edge of the triptick.

Cheers,
Sydney

Thanks everyone for the many helpful answers and comments.
I'm always impressed at how easy it is to get useful information
here. I'm not sure how people survived before the Web and Usenet.

To answer the question that came up a couple of times, I'll be
flying a 1986 Socata Trinidad TB-21. Nice plane with reasonable ability
to get in and out of short fields, but can also theoretically cruise
at 187 knots at 25,000 feet. The theoretical part is that given
the O2 requirements for a mask, I won't really fly it that high.
Also it gets quite cold up there in a TB-21. For some of the
legs I'll fly with nasal oxygen at 16 or 17,000 feet and can
get better than 165 knots at that altitude (the POH says 175,
but I'm not convinced).

BWI had not occurred to me since I would not have guessed,
as several people have mentioned, that it is actually GA-friendly.
Despite that, I'm guessing it's a long haul from Bethesda, but
given Ron Natalie's comments about FME, I'm wondering whether
actual ground travel is faster there than I realized? If not,
based on the various comments, I'll probably go to GAI.

--
David Rind

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:39:31 -0500, David Rind
wrote:


BWI had not occurred to me since I would not have guessed,
as several people have mentioned, that it is actually GA-friendly.
Despite that, I'm guessing it's a long haul from Bethesda, but
given Ron Natalie's comments about FME, I'm wondering whether
actual ground travel is faster there than I realized? If not,
based on the various comments, I'll probably go to GAI.

FME is, like other people said, really out in the middle of nowhere as
far as public transportation goes.

For Bethesda, I'd probably stick with GAI. The problem with the DC
Metro system is that if you are currently outside of the city on one
radial (if I may mix my metaphors) and you want to go to another
radial, you pretty much have to go all the way in and all the way back
out, which makes it very inconvienent for Greenbelt/Bethesda or
Vienna/Bethesda trips.

As far as the code orange situation that the earlier poster alluded
to, I definitely agree, several months back in the summer the retry
times for Potomac Approach on the phone were extremely long. It has
definitely gotten much much better.

aw

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
(Suburban)
It's also relatively short, narrow, and last time I landed there, the
pavement wasn't in very good shape.

I guess I don't think if it as any of the three relative to some
airports we fly to or what our now-home-base used to be, but it *is*
a ~2000 ft strip surrounded by poplars which may or may not have any
relation to the FAA's "50 ft obstacle" and them's the facts.

They do periodically lop them.

However it sounds like a moot point given others comments on
the DC Metro system and dealing with ATC in the ADIZ.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message . ..

However, you should not need but three charts. Perhaps four. Having a good
set of charts gives me a warm, squishy feeling on a trip of that magnitude.

???????

The taxi from the airport to wherever you are going is damn expensive. I
think it was forty bucks to get one to take me two miles to my hotel.

Scooters are the best way to get around the place. Don't even think of
renting a car.

Just a note, there is also a city bus system which runs from the
airport into town. Reasonable price, sometimes during holiday season
it's free. There are two buses which circle the island
in opposite directions, and depending on where you want to go,
it's important to get on the right bus. For example, there's
a nice beach actually pretty close to the airport, but if you
get on the wrong bus it's an hour's ride to get there. Ask me
how I know .

Cheers,
Sydney