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#11
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In article , N. Funk
wrote: Sins to the left was easier then the spins to the right. This isn't one of those Liberal, Democrat aircraft is it? ;-) |
#12
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In article , Andrew
Sarangan wrote: It takes some effort to spin a 172, especially with two people on board. If you keep some power in while entering the spin, it will spin nicely. The more power you add, the more it spins. Power will flatten a spin. |
#14
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So what? Why would you ever put full fuel in a Decathlon? The extra
fuel is for cross countries. We usually just kept 10 gallons in it. When I did my CFI I went up and did 2 upright spins (each direction ) and 2 inverted spins (each direction). What a blast! I was already a Decathlon pilot so I did some loops and rolls before heading back. We probably burned 4 gals. Not too many people have the internal guts to fly more than 45 minutes in a D anyway. -Robert, CF EDR wrote in message ... I cannot tell you what the FAA requirements are, but I will tell you that with two full size adults in the airplane, you cannot have full fuel onboard a Citabria/Decathlon and be with in the legal CG. Make certain you play with the W&B before you fly. |
#15
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Stefan wrote in message ...
BTW: I always read the term CFI (certificated flight instructor). This rises the question: Is there such a thing as an uncertificated flight instructor? Yes. You can receive instruction from military instructors in some cases that are not CFIs (not certified as instructors by the FAA). You can also be a CGI (ground instructor). The main reason we call it a CFI is because that is what the FAA prints on the ticket, "Certified Flight Instructor". Back in the pre 1970's days people just had "Flight Instructor" as a rating on the pilot's ticket. Nowadays a CFI is a different ticket, different piece of paper in your pocket from your pilot's cert. -Robert, CFI |
#16
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BTW: As a CFI I find the biggest obstacle to spin training is finding
a plane that the owner will let you spin. Most FBOs do instrument training in their 172s (and everything else) and therefor prohibit CFIs from spining the crap out of the gyros. -Robert, CFI |
#17
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In article ,
Robert M. Gary wrote: Nowadays a CFI is a different ticket, different piece of paper in your pocket *Now*adays it's a different piece of PLASTIC. I kind of feel sorry for CFIs having to carry around 2-3 credit-card sized certificates now (3 if you're an AGI and carry it). Even the new temporary certificates are bigger. Out with the carbon forms, in with the portable inkjet printed half-letter sized sheet. -- Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/ |
#18
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(Captain Wubba) wrote
We could not get the airplane to enter a fully developed spin. It would enter the incipient stage just fine, but would not remain in the spin for even one complete rotation. What exactly are the definitions of 'spin training' that the FAA requires for CFI logbook endorsement? I am having trouble locating specific definitions. First off, I think you have probably not met the requirements. I will accept that the FAR's are vague on this matter. 61.183(i) Accomplish the following for a flight instructor certificate with an airplane or a glider rating: (1) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures after providing the applicant with flight training in those training areas in an airplane or glider, as appropriate, that is certificated for spins; and (2) Demonstrate instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures. There is nothing in there about the spins needing to be fully developed, one turn, three turns, or anything of the sort. However, I think it is reasonable to expect that the minimum standard would be performing the maneuver as described in the CFI-Airplane PTS (FAA-S-8081-6B), Area of Operation XI, Task G (page 1-56, available from the FAA web site http://av-info.faa.gov/). Note especially Objective 3 - To determine that the applicant demonstrates and simultaneously explains a spin (one turn) from an instructional standpoint. If you have not done a spin that was at least one turn, I can't see how you can be endorsed as proficient. Here are some options I would consider: Find a lightweight instructor and do the spins in a C-150. With a tiny instructor (120 lbs or so) and minimum fuel, you should be within limits. Force the 172 into a spin. Here's how: Accelerate to about 130 kts (this will require a power-on dive). Smoothly pull up into a climbing left turn, about 25 degrees nose up and about 10 degrees left bank. Smoothly close the throttle, and maintain pitch and bank with elevator and ailerons until you hit the aft stop on the yoke. As you hit the aft stop, go hard over to the right on the ailerons while maintaining full aft elevator, and slam the left rudder to the floor as you give a short (1-2 seconds) burst of power with the throttle. Maintain all control inputs - full aft yoke, full right aileron, full left rudder. It should stay in a spin for one turn - long enough for you to get your endorsement. Be warned - the entry is a bit of a wild ride. Michael |
#19
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EDR wrote in message ...
In article , Andrew Sarangan wrote: It takes some effort to spin a 172, especially with two people on board. If you keep some power in while entering the spin, it will spin nicely. The more power you add, the more it spins. Power will flatten a spin. In a 172, yep. I've been in a Cherokee spin once and a blip of throttle will definitely tighten up the spin in that plane. Our 172 is hard to maintain in a spin also unless the W&B is just right. If I'm solo with full fuel, I can get into and maintain a nice spin and recover at a pre-chosen altitude and heading. With two aboard, a half-turn spin quickly turns into just a spiral with the airspeed rapidly increasing. When the 172 is noseheavy, it just simply doesn't have enough elevator authority at slow airspeeds to keep the wings stalled enough for a pretty spin. |
#20
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Just nit-picking..... (Robert M. Gary) wrote The main reason we call it a CFI is because that is what the FAA prints on the ticket, "Certified Flight Instructor". Not on my Flight Instructor certificate. To the FAA, I'm just the holder of Flight Instructor certificate #.......... There is no instance in FAR 61, 91 or 141 where the FAA uses the term "certified". Part 141 is the only remaining part where the FAA has not replaced the phrase "Certificated Flight Instructor" with "Authorized Flight Instructor". Nowadays a CFI is a different ticket, different piece of paper in your pocket from your pilot's cert. I don't have a CFI, nor a ticket, but I do posess a Flight Instructor certificate. Older Airman Certificates used to state that.............. "This certifies that.......has been found to be properly qualified to exercise the privilege of........." Newer certificates simply state "...........has ben found to be properly qualified to exercise the privilege of............". We don't refer to Private Pilots as "CPP"s, Certificated or Certified Private Pilots even though, just as Flight Instructors, they all hold FAA Airman Certificates. Bob Moore Flight Instructor (FAA certificated) Airline Transport Pilot (FAA certificated) |
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